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| Too Many "yes" Men; around Brucie | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 7 2005, 01:15 PM (398 Views) | |
| ATL-Blue | Dec 7 2005, 01:15 PM Post #1 |
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Frank Worthington
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Terry Bullivant, Eric Black and John Benson have all been managers and highly thought of one's too, all be it at lower levels. Surely they realise that Upson should never even be considered as a starter at left back, (Cunningham at right back is a different matter because he does fairly well and has spent the vast majority of his career in that position) especially when they are other who can and should play there ahead of him. And for example that mare against Boro, where Brucie picked Tebs centre mid, Clem left wing, and Jarosik up front. Surely if it was a coaching staff that were really honest with each other that team wouldn't have been picked. Or at Blackburn when Clapham played left wing. I personally could see the reasoning at first (more pace and athleticism at left back with Stan) but surely once the game started it never really worked and should have been changed. Anyway do you think Brucie is surrounded by too many yes Men? Or do you think he just doesn't consult them enough? |
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| Blues | Dec 7 2005, 01:17 PM Post #2 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Yes |
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| Bookemdanno | Dec 7 2005, 01:19 PM Post #3 |
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Alex Govan
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I think its as a collective. They all take turns picking names out the hat for the positions. |
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| proccy_blues | Dec 7 2005, 01:31 PM Post #4 |
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Joe Bradford
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i agree - with everyone ;) |
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| Coorslite | Dec 7 2005, 01:40 PM Post #5 |
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Frank Worthington
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So they are Borg. 'Resistance is Futile' we are as one. You will be assemalated into the Borg :lol: |
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| Bluemoon | Dec 7 2005, 01:41 PM Post #6 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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Yes |
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| Blooboy | Dec 7 2005, 01:45 PM Post #7 |
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Unregistered
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erm....Hmm, erm, .......yes **thumbup |
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| ATL-Blue | Dec 7 2005, 01:46 PM Post #8 |
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Frank Worthington
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:D |
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| djmmusic | Dec 7 2005, 01:50 PM Post #9 |
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Alex Govan
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Somehow with Upson at LB we look more solid. Less attacking, but more solid. Clapham is a LW and LB so either of those positions would suit. Regards the presence of yes men, I'm not sure that's the case. More often than not we have had no choice on who to play this season with the injuries, so whether a coach fervently agrees or disagrees has only become relevant in the last 2 prem games or so. I suspect Bruce will consult and listen to the coaches reports and then make a decision based on that info. |
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| sam jordan | Dec 7 2005, 01:51 PM Post #10 |
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i was going to say no, but if i was the only one I have got to go along and say YES. the back four has been our downfall, i think we have conceeded 12, as opposed to only 6 at this point last season, and that is the only difference, I believe same goals "for", am sure someone will correct me.... and yet we have same players, surely best back four is Melchiot, Cunningham, Upson, Clapham, we were solid last season, this season we have battled but let soft goals in, I know we have injuries, but there is an issue there that needs looking at, why do SO many of our players get injured? |
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| ATL-Blue | Dec 7 2005, 02:11 PM Post #11 |
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Frank Worthington
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great post DJmusic, but just the way Stan played when he came on showed that a forward thinking full back can be very beneficial. You play Upson left back thats it, no threat from the left, just long diagonal crossfield balls. Yes in those games we were pretty stuck for choice due to injuries but for example the middlesboro game, I think i'm right when I say Heskey and Dunn were pretty much the only players injured. He didn't need to play so many players out of position. |
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| Bluebird | Dec 7 2005, 02:14 PM Post #12 |
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Paul Tait
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I didn't realise that he was surrounded by ex-managers.... Therein lies the problem.... I have written a number of posts about the dichotomy of having a failed ex-manager as an Assistant.... To think that SB has two other ex managers in significant positions just increases the problem.... Look at the successful Managers.... They have a single midedness about how they approach the game.... They have their own ideas and the players know who's Boss! Now put yourself in a situation where four people have their own ideas about how the game should be played and managed and the players are aware of any disagreements that take place.... The Dressing Room then becomes split with different factions supporting what they consider to be the correct (or the easist) option.... Surrounded by too many "Yes!" men? Not certain; 'cos I just don't know.... But singleminded management ~ never! |
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| alfboy | Dec 7 2005, 02:24 PM Post #13 |
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Garry Pendrey
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I've got to disagree with that, many managers have other people who have been managers as their assistants. Quirez at Man Utd has been the Real Madrid boss!!!! |
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| fatlad | Dec 7 2005, 02:27 PM Post #14 |
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Malcom Page
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and he was crap an all! <_< |
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| The_Bear | Dec 7 2005, 02:31 PM Post #15 |
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Gil Merrick
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No |
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| turunc | Dec 7 2005, 02:39 PM Post #16 |
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Frank Worthington
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Bowen said no.......ah!!! Yes :angry: |
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| fatlad | Dec 7 2005, 02:40 PM Post #17 |
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Malcom Page
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" computer says noooo" Little Britain rocks! :P :lol: |
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| proud2bblue | Dec 7 2005, 03:01 PM Post #18 |
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Ian Bennett
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sack em all but sb as gotta look at the players he picks and brought to the club and while doing so look at himself.weve the best squad for many a year on paper but we are going to do a sunderland,be up for four years then go down.sb needs help from someone with premier experience not these lower league ex-managers.robson is doing nothing maybe he might put his pension book away for abit to help us or y not get burley in.just a thought |
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| Bluebird | Dec 7 2005, 06:01 PM Post #19 |
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Paul Tait
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Thanks alfboy.... You've just proven my point! If you had read my previous posts on this subject then you would be aware that I have used the situation at Manure as proof of the theory.... Since Queiroz arrived back from Real Madrid, Manure have had their worst two Seasons in the past fifteen! Look at the successful Clubs.... Assistant Manager Chelski - Steve Clarke (Ever heard of him?) Assistant Manager Arsenal - Pat Rice (Never managed before) Assistant Manager Bolton - Sammy Lee (ex Liverpool - never managed before) Do you want me to go on? Just at Blues: Barry Fry and Lou Furillo (ex Peterborough Manager) - failed Trevor Francis and Mick Mills (ex Stoke) - failed Steve Bruce and Mark Bowen (Never managed before) relatively successful Steve Bruce and Eric Black (ex Coventry City plus) - failed Now did Bruce suddenly become a bad Manager because the Coach was changed? It isn't just about managing the players... It's about managing the whole Team including the Backroom Staff! Even the Vile at one of their most successful points had Big Ron as Manager with Andy Gray (who has never managed) as his Assistant.... Don't get me started on this one.... I've got more stats than you can shake your fist at! There isn't a successful Team anywhere where the Assistant has managed before! The nearest possibility was Harry Redknapp and Jim Smith.... Just look at Cloughie and Taylor.... Briiliant combo until Taylor decided it was time to go manage himself.... The same thing happened with Ferguson and Brian Kidd.... But Kidd of course failed.... Then went to Leeds as Assistant and they got relegated.... Then went back as England Coach and look what happened to them! Bryan Robson and Viv Anderson (ex Reading).... The Teams that succeed have an Assistant Manager who wants to be an Assistant Manager.... If the Assistant has aspirations to be Manager then the Team will never be successful.... I beat this drum on average about every three months.... And people read it, make spurious comments and then wander away to moan and groan somewhere else.... Show me a successful Team where the Assistant Manager has managed before! |
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| Seasoned Pro | Dec 7 2005, 06:13 PM Post #20 |
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Bob Hatton
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SB should have surrounded himself with top coaches the minute we hit the Premiership..... People including perhaps himself seem to forget he is still a relatively inexperienced manager, yet alone in the top flight. In my own view from the latter part of the 2003/4 season i noticed a decline in performances let alone results and slowly its gone downhill from there.... Its not just about results, but sometimes you question our set pieces, why players seem to lose their touch, form, and their natural ability dies when they sign for us... I'd rather see Blues spend £3 million on getting rid of the poor backroom staff, bring in top class coaches and hire a more experienced and proven coach above SB, someone in the mould of Bobby Robson, than splashing out more money on strikers that seem to fail the minute they put on a blue jersey.... I hold up my hands and say that i don't feel SB will turn this around, in times of crisis like every manager does, he will no doubt turn to those that surround him and consult his general manager John Benson, and the result of which is all there to see now..... We have the players....... but without good coaching, good management and direction we have absolutely nothing....... |
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| ATL-Blue | Dec 8 2005, 11:45 AM Post #21 |
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Frank Worthington
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Excellent Post You've made this point on several occasions over the last 18 months and because we were still doing kinda o.k. it never really got the attention. Now we're in the mess that we're in, i'm sure a lot more people are thinking you've got a point. |
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| brummie65 | Dec 8 2005, 12:05 PM Post #22 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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I dont think SB has this approach to managment. We have heard him say before when asked does he get advice from AF. He would say something like, I listen to those around me but ultimatley im the one in the position so its down to me. Ive got to be my own man. And to be honest with you i would agree. This senario would apply to all of us in what ever profession were in. In nursing I manage differenley to the next person. That makes me unique, when your in a position you have got to make your own decsions, you can listen to those around you if you want advice. You weigh everything up and you make the choices no one else, some you get right and others you get wrong. But you cant make decsions based on what others would do or say. What you do want is people around you that will support your decisions, not people who disagree with everything you say. I dont think bruce wants people around him that are yes men, he wants people around him that sees his vision and ambition. He will also want people around him like our captain Kenny Cunningham and the coaches to air their views in a positive way. And thats the question no one as yet asked, where is this support coming from? has our team captain been vocal for instance. We might not ever know, because issues like these might be kept in the dressing room or office. |
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