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The Uncomfortable Truth About 'racism'; ...Brum is a prime example.
Topic Started: Jan 27 2006, 07:41 PM (2,331 Views)
mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
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pestcontrol
Feb 2 2006, 06:39 PM
mr penguin
Feb 2 2006, 09:58 AM
mr penguin
Feb 1 2006, 03:34 PM
pestcontrol
Feb 1 2006, 10:21 AM
i would hold a referendum on immigration

What would the question be ?

@ pestcontrol

i have not forgot your question, and i am still thinking about the solution.

blimey, are you conducting focus groups or something ?
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

jassy you failed to read my one post altogether which explained alot of things imo,which was a bit of a slap in the face as i spent ages typing it up, how can i debate if you claim i cant tell you anything?, i suppose the reporter never imagined in his wildest dreams that reaction or the editor or all the other editors?,cause a problem to provoke a reaction so they can have the perfect soultion which usualy involves taking more of our civil libertys away.

jassy do you ever offer up any kind of solution?, ie if you think we all should become muslims just say so, mr blair claims to read the koran every night and if he is in a double bed i dont blame him, to send infidels in there on some hunt for wmd when the followers of islam are the wmd ( even if some of them have not realised yet) is

1= oil
2= he is a shape shifting dragon from the fourth dimension who along with twelve other dragon familys control the world, but humans can only see them as dragons during black magic rituals
3 they found 15 50megaton bombs but kept it quite as not to offend the muslims
4 he will do anything his wife tells him to
5 do anything degrading and opposite to the peoples wishes along with con and lib so that the bnp will win and become the scapegoats.

satire has been around for ages in western culture, all religions are a severe form of mind control to create sheep or wolves, laughing is always a good cure, the one cartoon did make me laugh, ( im sorry i will try harder not to do it again).
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jassyblue80
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Trevor Francis
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
pestcontrol
Feb 3 2006, 02:57 PM
jassy you failed to read my one post altogether which explained alot of things imo,which was a bit of a slap in the face as i spent ages typing it up, how can i debate if you claim i cant tell you anything?, i suppose the reporter never imagined in his wildest dreams that reaction or the editor or all the other editors?,cause a problem to provoke a reaction so they can have the perfect soultion which usualy involves taking more of our civil libertys away.

jassy do you ever offer up any kind of solution?, ie if you think we all should become muslims just say so, mr blair claims to read the koran every night and if he is in a double bed i dont blame him, to send infidels in there on some hunt for wmd when the followers of islam are the wmd ( even if some of them have not realised yet) is

1= oil
2= he is a shape shifting  dragon  from the fourth dimension who along with twelve other dragon familys control the world, but humans can only see them as dragons during black magic rituals
3 they found 15 50megaton bombs but kept it quite as not to offend the muslims
4 he will do anything his wife tells him to
5 do anything degrading and opposite to the peoples wishes along with con and lib so that the bnp will win and become the scapegoats.

satire has been around for ages in western culture, all religions are a severe form of mind control to create sheep or wolves, laughing is always a good cure, the one cartoon did make me laugh, ( im sorry i will try harder not to do it again).

Sorry pest, it wasn’t out of disrespect but I’ve heard all the negative things about the Koran/bible many times! you opened with let me explain from the beginning… and as I have a decent understanding and knowledge of both I felt that I didn’t need to read your post! I don’t really need it explaining so I took it that you knew what you were talking about and debated! In an educated argument you can state your understanding and go from there (it saves time)

I didn’t really want to get into a debate over which is worse the bible or the Koran… however as this post has now descended into just that I have revisited your post. As you state in Islamic states human rights are over looked… isn’t this similar to some southern states in USA and Quantomino bay (SP)? Why is it that people are intent at picking at all of the negatives in the Koran and none western countries and ignoring the same actions that take place in western and Christian countries?? Does this not stink of double standards? We can continue from their if you like??

My solution, a revolution and removal of all religions :D seriously I doubt there is one, I’m not religious in the slightest… I just hate the fact that it has now become acceptable to persecute the Islam faith based on lies and misconception

basically solution, peace and respect to all
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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jassyblue80
Feb 3 2006, 03:13 PM
[

My solution, a revelation and removal of all religions


basically solution, peace and respect to all

agreed - remove religion and there's no basis for discrimination of the person **thumbup
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

mr penguin
Feb 3 2006, 01:48 PM
pestcontrol
Feb 2 2006, 06:39 PM
mr penguin
Feb 2 2006, 09:58 AM
mr penguin
Feb 1 2006, 03:34 PM
pestcontrol
Feb 1 2006, 10:21 AM
i would hold a referendum on immigration

What would the question be ?

@ pestcontrol

i have not forgot your question, and i am still thinking about the solution.

blimey, are you conducting focus groups or something ?

im sorry mr pengiun,we have had a labour minister resign because of a whistleblowers book on a whole range of things to do with immigration, apparantly they tried to ban this book, a sneering education minister nuff said and the prime minister, one hundred and forty seven unelected organisations some of which claim to speak on behalf of the muslim people and a westernised muslim lady that wrote an article in the daily mail that she knows lots of muslims and none of them know who these people are, the bnp and old miss jones that lives down the road claims that a muslim turned in to a dragon and disintigrated a member of the bnp, yassy who likes to wind me up and tubs who thinks i generalise. i will reply soon.
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
pestcontrol
Feb 3 2006, 06:04 PM
mr penguin
Feb 3 2006, 01:48 PM
pestcontrol
Feb 2 2006, 06:39 PM
mr penguin
Feb 2 2006, 09:58 AM
mr penguin
Feb 1 2006, 03:34 PM
pestcontrol
Feb 1 2006, 10:21 AM
i would hold a referendum on immigration

What would the question be ?

@ pestcontrol

i have not forgot your question, and i am still thinking about the solution.

blimey, are you conducting focus groups or something ?

im sorry mr pengiun,we have had a labour minister resign because of a whistleblowers book on a whole range of things to do with immigration, apparantly they tried to ban this book, a sneering education minister nuff said and the prime minister, one hundred and forty seven unelected organisations some of which claim to speak on behalf of the muslim people and a westernised muslim lady that wrote an article in the daily mail that she knows lots of muslims and none of them know who these people are, the bnp and old miss jones that lives down the road claims that a muslim turned in to a dragon and disintigrated a member of the bnp, yassy who likes to wind me up and tubs who thinks i generalise. i will reply soon.

Heres my reply.

This latest post is the most sense you've made in this debate >;o)

And you do generalise.

If you don't, the only other explaination ignoring the extremism of some Christians and the moderation of most Muslims is that it's a willful act of descrimination against peaceful followers of a faith.

I'm sure that isn't the case.

Gazza
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BluenoseJoJo
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Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Nick Griffin was prosecuted for inciting racial hatred because he said Islam is an evil religion and asylum seekers are like cockroaches. Now here are British muslims walking around with banners calling explicitly for people who dare to criticise their religion to be killed, beheaded, massacred. Are they being arrested and prosecuted? They had bloody well better be!

If Griffin had said "Kill muslims" or "Kill asylum seekers", he'd have gone to jail and rightly so. He can now say "It's one law for them and one law for us" and much as it pains me to say it, how do you argue with that?

The cartoons were a cheap shot and they were dead easy to ignore, I'd certainly never have known about them if I hadn't seen muslims take up arms around the world threatening those who dare to have an opinion of their faith with death. There are lots of people in this world whose opinions are abhorrent to me - I ignore them rather than give them the publicity they crave, job done!

I'm livid that someone can walk the streets of this country stating that they will behead anyone who dares to criticise what they believe in and that it's okay for them to do that
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
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BluenoseJoJo
Feb 3 2006, 11:37 PM
Nick Griffin was prosecuted for inciting racial hatred because he said Islam is an evil religion and asylum seekers are like cockroaches. Now here are British muslims walking around with banners calling explicitly for people who dare to criticise their religion to be killed, beheaded, massacred. Are they being arrested and prosecuted? They had bloody well better be!

Extremist Mulsims who are inciting violence are being, and will be arrested.


Quote:
 
If Griffin had said "Kill muslims" or "Kill asylum seekers", he'd have gone to jail and rightly so. He can now say "It's one law for them and one law for us" and much as it pains me to say it, how do you argue with that?

Nick Griffin, like Muslim extremists is an intolerent bigot. He didn't say kill Muslims, but then it's a few intolerent Muslims that call for violence against the infedels. All intolerent people should be locked up. The fact that there are evil people about who happen to be Muslim does not excuse the hate that Nick Griffin incites against a whole faith in order to promote his racist agenda.

Quote:
 
The cartoons were a cheap shot and they were dead easy to ignore, I'd certainly never have known about them if I hadn't seen muslims take up arms around the world threatening those who dare to have an opinion of their faith with death.  There are lots of people in this world whose opinions are abhorrent to me - I ignore them rather than give them the publicity they crave, job done!

One of the reasons that the cartoons have created such a backlash is that they first appeared in a very right wing, some say fascist rag. I agree though, that they could have been easily ignored. However, some beleive the intent was not to test free speach, but to promote hate.

Quote:
 
I'm livid that someone can walk the streets of this country stating that they will behead anyone who dares to criticise what they believe in and that it's okay for them to do that

They can't, the law is very clear. If you hear of someone who calls for violence to supress free speach report them to the authorities.

Gazza
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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gosh! all this talk of beheading and i'm watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre...coincidence? :blink:
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
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The Concerned Potato Head
Feb 4 2006, 12:33 AM
gosh! all this talk of beheading and i'm watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre...coincidence? :blink:

I doubt it.

It's a sign from god that we should behead all that opose my opinion.

Go on, do it!

DO IT!!!!!

Gazza

P.S Is it possible to prosecute me for this post under the new anti terrorism laws?
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k-bek
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Mikael Forssell
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How can anyone still be saying extremists are responsible for the unrest and they are a very small minority?

Look at the facts.

Today we have had muslims of all denomination, ages, backgrounds and financial ability demanding the editors of newspapers that printed cartoons are beheaded.

We have seen gangs of muslims, young and old, men and women, childrena nd even some with babies, walking our streets demanding murders and violence because of a few pictures.

We have heard about embassies being attacked and bombarded with eggs because of a few cartoons.

These are not a tiny minority of extremists. These are supposedly normal, peace loving muslims.

Now, I subscribe to the live and let live philosophy but when this level of hatred stems from nothing more than a few catroons we MUSt all question the motives.

I am vastly offended when I see muslims in foreight countries and even in GB burning the Union Jack. I fully expect I am not alone in being offended by this but what is done? It is shown on all GB news channels and we are expected to accept it as freedom of speach.

If a muslim had drawn and published the pitcures I would be more accepting of the uproar. but as it was none muslims who drew and published them I can't see what the fuss is about about. You can be offended without taking to the streets and demanding murder.

I wasn't offended by the Life of Brian.

Tolerance works both ways. None muslims should NOT be expected to live by the rules of Islam.

Free speach should be just that. Free.

If you do not have the courage of your convictions or the confidence in your belif to allow others to question them then maybe they're not right afterall.
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alfred E nueman
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Mikael Forssell
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..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz..

Go to bed Mrs Bruce

..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz..
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k-bek
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Mikael Forssell
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PMSLOL

You do seem to have it in for me don't you. PMSLOL

No valid response to what I have posted so you choose ridicule yet again.

Bless you, it is quite late. Maybe you should go to bed yourself.
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

@ mr pengiun

i wrote a massive piece in reply its 7.30 and i was up all night writing it and i came to the conclusion after the preview that anything i write will not change anything for the better and after your or jassys or tubs reply, i would have to do it all over again, so i hope you dont think i cant answer your question, its just that i want to think about other things.
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mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
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k-bek
Feb 4 2006, 01:20 AM
How can anyone still be saying extremists are responsible for the unrest and they are a very small minority?

Look at the facts.

Today we have had muslims of all denomination, ages, backgrounds and financial ability demanding the editors of newspapers that printed cartoons are beheaded.

We have seen gangs of muslims, young and old, men and women, childrena nd even some with babies, walking our streets demanding murders and violence because of a few pictures.

We have heard about embassies being attacked and bombarded with eggs because of a few cartoons.

These are not a tiny minority of extremists. These are supposedly normal, peace loving muslims.

Now, I subscribe to the live and let live philosophy but when this level of hatred stems from nothing more than a few catroons we MUSt all question the motives.

I am vastly offended when I see muslims in foreight countries and even in GB burning the Union Jack. I fully expect I am not alone in being offended by this but what is done? It is shown on all GB news channels and we are expected to accept it as freedom of speach.

If a muslim had drawn and published the pitcures I would be more accepting of the uproar. but as it was none muslims who drew and published them I can't see what the fuss is about about. You can be offended without taking to the streets and demanding murder.

I wasn't offended by the Life of Brian.

Tolerance works both ways. None muslims should NOT be expected to live by the rules of Islam.

Free speach should be just that. Free.

If you do not have the courage of your convictions or the confidence in your belif to allow others to question them then maybe they're not right afterall.

Nobody comes out of the "cartoon" saga with much credit.

The cartoons are puerile and deliberately provocative. Free speech is being abused for the purposes of mischief making.

SOME muslims have over-reacted, imo. Their reaction has caused more damage to perceptions of Islam than the cartoons did in the first place. It would have been much smarter of them to have explained that they felt offended by the cartoons, but they understood that free speech includes a freedom to offend. They could have used it as an opportunity to educate some people about their religion & to challenge stereotypes.

@ k-bek - don't forget the hundreds of thousands, even millions, of muslims who did not take to the streets, did not throw any eggs and did not call for anyone to beheaded.
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mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
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pestcontrol
Feb 4 2006, 07:47 AM
@ mr pengiun

i wrote a massive piece in reply its 7.30 and i was up all night writing it and i came to the conclusion after the preview that anything i write will not change anything for the better and after your or jassys or tubs reply, i would have to do it all over again, so i hope you dont think i cant answer your question, its just that i want to think about other things.

@ pestcontrol

No problem.

I just wanted to make the point that there are no easy answers.

In one of your earlier posts you were adamant that all governments had failed to see the issues or to take effective action.

When I asked you what you would actually do, as I recall, you came up with troops out of Iraq and a couple of referenda - which if I understand, would not really address the central issue of how an ethnically and religiously diverse population should co-exist.

A very straightforward question - what would the question be for your referendum on immigration - has taken you days to think about.

Many of the far right groups - eg. bnp, nf - are able to provide emotional rhetoric, but unable to translate it into credible policies. Once you get past the emotional stuff you see that there are no ideas really.

The only policies that really make the country better for our kids are based on tolerance, inclusivity and respect. There are no easy answers. It's difficult because it's difficult.
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
k-bek
Feb 4 2006, 01:20 AM
How can anyone still be saying extremists are responsible for the unrest and they are a very small minority?

Look at the facts.

Today we have had muslims of all denomination, ages, backgrounds and financial ability demanding the editors of newspapers that printed cartoons are beheaded.

We have seen gangs of muslims, young and old, men and women, childrena nd even some with babies, walking our streets demanding murders and violence because of a few pictures.

We have heard about embassies being attacked and bombarded with eggs because of a few cartoons.

These are not a tiny minority of extremists. These are supposedly normal, peace loving muslims.

Now, I subscribe to the live and let live philosophy but when this level of hatred stems from nothing more than a few catroons we MUSt all question the motives.

I am vastly offended when I see muslims in foreight countries and even in GB burning the Union Jack. I fully expect I am not alone in being offended by this but what is done? It is shown on all GB news channels and we are expected to accept it as freedom of speach.

If a muslim had drawn and published the pitcures I would be more accepting of the uproar. but as it was none muslims who drew and published them I can't see what the fuss is about about. You can be offended without taking to the streets and demanding murder.

I wasn't offended by the Life of Brian.

Tolerance works both ways. None muslims should NOT be expected to live by the rules of Islam.

Free speach should be just that. Free.

If you do not have the courage of your convictions or the confidence in your belif to allow others to question them then maybe they're not right afterall.

Wow.

You really are paranoid, aren't you?

This rant you make. It's just pap, isn't it.

It's the sort of rubbish the BNP quote.

I have my Muslim friends (acquired through work and campaigns) and guess what, not one has ever said I should lead a Muslim life. If what you sy is true, why is that. After all Mormons and Johavahs Witnesses I've never met have knocked on my door and asked me to live there way of life.

Hold on! Why does you post not mention this. Wy does your post not complain about Christians trying to force us into there way of life? They are certainly more active in trying to change us to their way?

Is that a tad hypocritical K-bek?

You have made the mistake of seeing the actions of a few and judging the many.

Do you label all Christians by the acts of violent pro lifers?

Or by the protests of Chrstians agaist the Jerry Springer Opera (sort of similar to protesting against a comic, wouldn't you say)?

Or all Sihks by the minority that protested against Bhetzi (and again)?

Nope?

So do you carry these preconceptions against all Mulsim, in opposition to the evidence that stares you in the face?

And by the way, when the Life of Brian was released, there was uproar from Christain groups across the country.

So you're not offended by it the Life of Brian even though some Christians were and indeed are?. Well the majority of Muslims couldn't care less about the cartoon. Sort of similar senarios, wouldn't you say.

What am I talking about.

I'm with you. Run for your life, the Muslims are coming!!!!

Gazza

P.S. Is your latest post an example of the tolerance you spoke of previously in the thread?
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
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pestcontrol
Feb 4 2006, 07:47 AM
@ mr pengiun

i wrote a massive piece in reply its 7.30 and i was up all night writing it and i came to the conclusion after the preview that anything i write will not change anything for the better and after your or jassys or tubs reply, i would have to do it all over again, so i hope you dont think i cant answer your question, its just that i want to think about other things.

Yeah, right.

Gazza
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
mr penguin
Feb 4 2006, 08:16 AM
k-bek
Feb 4 2006, 01:20 AM
How can anyone still be saying extremists are responsible for the unrest and they are a very small minority?

Look at the facts.

Today we have had muslims of all denomination, ages, backgrounds and financial ability demanding the editors of newspapers that printed cartoons are beheaded.

We have seen gangs of muslims, young and old, men and women, childrena nd even some with babies, walking our streets demanding murders and violence because of a few pictures.

We have heard about embassies being attacked and bombarded with eggs because of a few cartoons.

These are not a tiny minority of extremists. These are supposedly normal, peace loving muslims.

Now, I subscribe to the live and let live philosophy but when this level of hatred stems from nothing more than a few catroons we MUSt all question the motives.

I am vastly offended when I see muslims in foreight countries and even in GB burning the Union Jack. I fully expect I am not alone in being offended by this but what is done? It is shown on all GB news channels and we are expected to accept it as freedom of speach.

If a muslim had drawn and published the pitcures I would be more accepting of the uproar. but as it was none muslims who drew and published them I can't see what the fuss is about about. You can be offended without taking to the streets and demanding murder.

I wasn't offended by the Life of Brian.

Tolerance works both ways. None muslims should NOT be expected to live by the rules of Islam.

Free speach should be just that. Free.

If you do not have the courage of your convictions or the confidence in your belif to allow others to question them then maybe they're not right afterall.

Nobody comes out of the "cartoon" saga with much credit.

The cartoons are puerile and deliberately provocative. Free speech is being abused for the purposes of mischief making.

SOME muslims have over-reacted, imo. Their reaction has caused more damage to perceptions of Islam than the cartoons did in the first place. It would have been much smarter of them to have explained that they felt offended by the cartoons, but they understood that free speech includes a freedom to offend. They could have used it as an opportunity to educate some people about their religion & to challenge stereotypes.

@ k-bek - don't forget the hundreds of thousands, even millions, of muslims who did not take to the streets, did not throw any eggs and did not call for anyone to beheaded.

mr penguin.

What a balanced and well informed view.

I bow in your general direction.

>;o)

Gazza
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
mr penguin
Feb 4 2006, 08:33 AM
pestcontrol
Feb 4 2006, 07:47 AM
@ mr pengiun

i wrote a massive piece in reply its 7.30 and i was up all night writing it and i came to the conclusion after the preview that anything i write will not change anything for the better and after your or jassys or tubs reply, i would have to do it all over again, so i hope you dont think i cant answer your question, its just that i want to think about other things.

@ pestcontrol

No problem.

I just wanted to make the point that there are no easy answers.

In one of your earlier posts you were adamant that all governments had failed to see the issues or to take effective action.

When I asked you what you would actually do, as I recall, you came up with troops out of Iraq and a couple of referenda - which if I understand, would not really address the central issue of how an ethnically and religiously diverse population should co-exist.

A very straightforward question - what would the question be for your referendum on immigration - has taken you days to think about.

Many of the far right groups - eg. bnp, nf - are able to provide emotional rhetoric, but unable to translate it into credible policies. Once you get past the emotional stuff you see that there are no ideas really.

The only policies that really make the country better for our kids are based on tolerance, inclusivity and respect. There are no easy answers. It's difficult because it's difficult.

Blimey.

You are our new leader.

Obviously, supreme executive power comes from a mandate of the masses [not some farcical acquatic ceramony] but if passed we meet for orders of state every second Tuesday except in cases of urgency when only half the members and a simple majority vote is enough to carry policy through. if given supreme execuive power, as leader you will be in charge of the list of people who will be lined up agaisnt the wall once the revelution comes. I ask you not to remove Robbie Williams. Not an enemy of the new order, he's just rubbish.

Obviously, red socks are a must as is your copy ofthe communist manifesto.

Gazza

P.S And I might kiss you on the lips if it ever turns out that your a girl.
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BluenoseJoJo
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Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
You've got Jack Straw bleating on about how irresponsible these cartoonists and journalists are being yet he says nothing about why muslim extremists are protesting in our streets threatening not just violence, but murder, in response to what is basically a ****-take of muslim fundamentalism, openly breaking the law and not being arrested for it.

No doubt 'community relations' is the excuse being trotted out but these were extremists on our streets yesterday, who have just won a major battle by shouting and making threats so loudly that those in authority caved in in order to keep the peace.

I want to know that each and every one of the people holding a 'murder', 'slay', 'behead', 'massacre' banner in full view of cameras yesterday was arrested. Why has no-one come out very publicly and said that this incitement to violence on our streets will never be tolerated and extremism will get them absolutely nowhere in this country rather than getting them exactly what they want.
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Aussiebrum
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Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Tubs2
Feb 2 2006, 10:41 PM

As I've said, they were both written a long time ago by intollerant men. Modern scholars interpret them in ways of peace and tollerance. However there are idiots who follow both reliegions who take them quite literally.

You just seem selective in your judgement. In the same way Muslim Extremists are?

Gazza

So the Ministers of the Church are "idiots" but you are smart following your extreme socialist agenda.

And you want us to take you seriously.
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DANY
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
How dare these muslims tell us what we can and cant print in our newpapers.

If they dont like living in a society where freedom of speech is a basic human right why dont they just clear off back to the poor, repressed, dictorial, backward country they came from.
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BlooNose
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
DANY,Feb 4 2006
05:44 PM
How dare these muslims tell us what we can and cant print in our newpapers.

If they dont like living in a society where freedom of speech is a basic human right why dont they just clear off

**thumbup **thumbup
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Aussiebrum
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Mikael Forssell
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DANY
Feb 4 2006, 05:44 PM
How dare these muslims tell us what we can and cant print in our newpapers.

If they dont like living in a society where freedom of speech is a basic human right why dont they just clear off back to the poor, repressed, dictorial, backward country they came from.

Dany - just wait for Tubs to come on here to justify their actions or simply abuse you personally.

He has so much difficulty with individual freedoms, and all other basic human rights like free speech, private property rights and democratic capitalism.

And ofcourse, he can call the Ministers from our Churches "idiots" and wonder why we can't take him seriously.
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