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The Uncomfortable Truth About 'racism'; ...Brum is a prime example.
Topic Started: Jan 27 2006, 07:41 PM (2,329 Views)
mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Here's what I think...

Muslim radicals / activists = a small minority

Muslims sympathetic to the radicals = enough to be concerned about

Muslims who have no particular sympathy for the radicals & just want to get on with their own lives, but never get onto the front pages of newspapers, onto tv or make their feelings known in the street = the vast majority
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garrybaldy
foley okenla, richie moran
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Believe me Mr P i am not prone to flights of fancy, today was a horrible experience, one i thought i would ever encounter walking round my city. As jassy has said i will also always try to confront racists and their views but , i dont know , humiliation was something i felt today as if everything i hold dear was spat back in my face, they didn't seem to understand that i didn't draw the cartoons, i dont want to alter their ways or thinking , i am quite happy for them to practice their religion.
i can do without having to listen to crap being spouted , without seeing inflamatory leaflets being handed out, i am really sorry but please feel free anyone to have a gander down there, or maybe you were down there today, and can tell me i am truly mistaken.......... but i doubt anyone can and it is all very sad :(
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k-bek
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Mikael Forssell
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@ Tubs,

Where have I made any blanket statements?
Where have I ever said I think ALL muslims are a problem?
Where have I ever said that Christians are perfectly iok and their beliefs are perfectly ok?

The honest answer is I have never said any of the above.

You do not agree with what I say and that's ok but at least stop missing the point I am making.

What the last few days has shown us is there is an incresing number of muslims demanding violence and killings to avenge what they see as attacks on Islam.

People, yourself included, often speak about a tiny minority of muslim extremists, terrorists.

All I have said is it is not a tiny minority of extreme terrorists who are increasingly becoming violent and demanding death as a punishment for seemingly small errors and actions.

There was a picture in one newspaper yesterday of a tiny baby, couldn't be more that a couple of months old, wearing a hat which clearly said I love Al Qaida.

Babies are being brought into the World and are being tought hatred from day one. Now this is by no means an every day occurence throughout the World but it is a growing problem which is bigger than a few thousand terrorists Worldwide.

I have NEVER said I think all muslims are evil and against Western life. I have NEVER said all muslims want everyone to live according to the ways of Islam.

There are muslims who want to dictate to and opress millions using Islam as their main weapon. There are also many muslims who believe anyone who doesn't follow Islam is an infidel and is worthless.

These people do exist and they're far more frequent than a hand full of loony terrorists.


Yes, millions of muslims did stay at home and chose not to demonstrate. All credit to them. However, it would help the situation a lot more if the majority of muslims who are peaceful and law abiding stood up to be counted and condemned the apparent few.

You can not moan about your stereotype if you will not do anything to prove it wrong.


Answer me this Tubs.

How would you change the current situation?
How would you erradicate the violence being advocated by an ever increasing number of muslims?
How would you make people less wary and improve relations between muslims and everyone else?


You are very quick to condemn others for being worried, for having views different to yours and for forming their views from what they've seen on TV but how would you do things differently?

Yes the majority of muslims are against violence but the number of muslim people who support violence is increasing by the day. Mothers, wives, husbands, fathers, teachers, shop assistants, secretaries, brothers, housewives and many other people have been chanting hatred and demanding violence on the streets of London. They're not all minority extremist terrorists.
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garrybaldy
foley okenla, richie moran
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Very well articulated K-bek, i do see where you are coming from as regards forming a view through the media etc, and while i can see beyond the commentaries and politics of newspapers, i do strongly believe the anti western feelings may be growing , despite what Tubs may say( No tubs there is no definate proof but if you believe it isnt where is your proof). I just find the whole situation a little depressing and my dream of a peaceful future being torn apart from religious bigotry on all sides.
Listen you religious wierdos go away and let my family live without fear.......................Thankyou kindly **thumbup
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pestcontrol
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the colour of a pearsons skin is not the issue imo, if it was i would be pointing out that whites only occupy 8% of the globe as it seems hot weather is better for reproducing, i personaly dont care, if my mother or wife turned any colour except green overnight and it was not reversable it would not effect my feelings about them in any way whatsever, but i suspect if it was trevor phillips or a member of his family it would be a deep cause of concern.

but islam is not just a religion is it as its never been seperated from law and thus i suppose you could say politics, but the question remains who let eight million muslims in to the country who believe that there law is superior to ours because i know one thing if i 100% believed in god and was given a set of laws by him like there laws, i would never have paid all them parking tickets.
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Hirsty
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pestcontrol
Feb 6 2006, 01:43 AM
but the question remains who let eight million muslims in to the country who believe that their law is superior to ours.

Please indulge me, and apologies if I'm missing the point - it's late on Superbowl morning.......

Good point. PC gone mad. Do they all (and by all, I mean the extremists, as I'd guess there weren't 8 million protesters) think that "their law/religion" is or ever can be above the law of the land they chose to live in ???.

If they want to live by their "extreme" rules, then there's plenty of flights back to Islamabad/Kolkata/Tehran or Baghdad etc.

If not, respect the laws of the country you live in. Can you imagine the uproar if I (as a caucasian) went to live in one of those cities with my wife - and took a large number of equal minded friends - and applied UK laws/rules ???????. No - wouldn't be allowed to happen.

What ever happened to the Treason law/rule ??.

Again, sorry for the intrusion, but c'mon - do these people want to live here, and respect our laws, or not. If not, they know where the doors are....

KRO,

C.
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

i think i have gone mad, i just seen a bunch of protestors been filmed and escorted by the met police with there faces covered carring slogans about the bombings and how they are going to do it again, i dont suppose the victims familys are a little bit offended by it? as one of that mob could have been bin laden himself and no arrests were made ,Maya Anne Evans, 25, a vegan cook from Hastings, was found guilty of breaching Section 132 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act.
She was arrested in October after reading out names of soldiers killed in Iraq at central London's Cenotaph.
Demonstrators must seek police consent for any protest around Westminster under the new law introduced in August.

the bbc asking for comments about certain cartoons, without showing us the cartoons? excuse me i pay a licence fee and should expect what everybody with a internet connection has seen.

ohh the met police say they will review the video evidence lmfao
i knew i should have taken the blue pill.
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Forward62
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Malcom Page
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BluenoseJoJo
Feb 5 2006, 11:48 PM
and how Jack Straw can make out that these newspapers/cartoonists were being irresponsible and disrespectful when he himself had a direct hand in bringing about the war in Iraq, killing thousands of muslims in the process, well I just don't know how he dare show his ******* face, let alone speak as an authority on the subject. ******* hypocrite!

Now I'm no expert, but it may have something to do with the demographic breakdown of voters in a large number of inner city constituencies and trying to keep them onside
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jassyblue80
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Trevor Francis
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@ Tuggy – spot on … people would rather moan on here then do anything about a problem or issue!!

@ garrybaldy – you are right mate, no one should be allowed to 5take to the streets calling for death to antone! No matter what has happened… I mean I hate the BNP and Nick Griffin, but I would not wish death on him or any of the members!

My guess is that the majority of Muslims complained about the cartoons in a sensible way!!

@ bluenose jojo – arrests have been made I believe? (see link)

@ Kbek – I believe it is still a minority… what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? News reports? A few hundred people protesting in country of millions? (a few hundred to many I agree)

As tubs has said there are also Jehovah witnesses who try and force their beliefs on me (more than any Muslim I have met)

How can millions condemn like you ask… by what means can this be done? Or should the leaders and heads do it on behalf of all? (as they have done)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm

I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."

Think that sums it up very nicely
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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jassyblue80
Feb 6 2006, 11:43 AM
@ Tuggy – spot on … people would rather moan on here then do anything about a problem or issue!!

@ garrybaldy – you are right mate, no one should be allowed to 5take to the streets calling for death to antone! No matter what has happened… I mean I hate the BNP and Nick Griffin, but I would not wish death on him or any of the members!

My guess is that the majority of Muslims complained about the cartoons in a sensible way!!

@ bluenose jojo – arrests have been made I believe? (see link)

@ Kbek – I believe it is still a minority… what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? News reports? A few hundred people protesting in country of millions? (a few hundred to many I agree)

As tubs has said there are also Jehovah witnesses who try and force their beliefs on me (more than any Muslim I have met)

How can millions condemn like you ask… by what means can this be done? Or should the leaders and heads do it on behalf of all? (as they have done)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm

I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."

Think that sums it up very nicely

Spot on Jassy! **thumbup
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StAndrews4Eva
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Gil Merrick
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jassyblue80
Feb 6 2006, 11:43 AM
@ Tuggy – spot on … people would rather moan on here then do anything about a problem or issue!!

@ garrybaldy – you are right mate, no one should be allowed to 5take to the streets calling for death to antone! No matter what has happened… I mean I hate the BNP and Nick Griffin, but I would not wish death on him or any of the members!

My guess is that the majority of Muslims complained about the cartoons in a sensible way!!

@ bluenose jojo – arrests have been made I believe? (see link)

@ Kbek – I believe it is still a minority… what evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? News reports? A few hundred people protesting in country of millions? (a few hundred to many I agree)

As tubs has said there are also Jehovah witnesses who try and force their beliefs on me (more than any Muslim I have met)

How can millions condemn like you ask… by what means can this be done? Or should the leaders and heads do it on behalf of all? (as they have done)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm

I condemn them without reservation, these people are less representative of Muslims than the BNP are of the British people."

Think that sums it up very nicely

Totally agree Jassy.
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
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Aussiebrum
Feb 5 2006, 12:58 AM
DANY
Feb 4 2006, 05:44 PM
How dare these muslims tell us what we can and cant print in our newpapers.

If they dont like living in a society where freedom of speech is a basic human right why dont they just clear off back to the poor, repressed, dictorial, backward country they came from.

Dany - just wait for Tubs to come on here to justify their actions or simply abuse you personally.


Do you not feel that the above quote of yours is personal abuse aimed towards me?

Time you grew up mate.

Why do you have such a problem with me?

Do you feel threatened?

Do you feel the values you hold dear don't bear up to scrutiny too well?

Is that it?

Quote:
 
He has so much difficulty with individual freedoms, and all other basic human rights like free speech, private property rights and democratic capitalism.

Democracy is fine. In fact, I quite approve you know. Said it time and time again. But it's easier for you to not listen and just make this stuff up, ain't it?

As a socialist, I have been fighting for individual freedoms for years. What on earth do you think the MPH and MTF campaigns are?

Capitialims per se, isn't too bad. I have room for open markets in my wolrd. Said that too, many times. I just don't have room for exploitation.

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And ofcourse, he can call the Ministers from our Churches "idiots" and wonder why we can't take him seriously.

I call all ministers from all faiths who do not preach tolerence and peace idiots. Don't you?

Where on earth did that come from. Where have I called all Christian ministers "idiots".

As I've said before, if you have to make up an argument to suit your purposes, time to re-evaluate your position, don't you think?

I have never been pro Muslim or anti Christinaity. I should imagine it's easier for you to try and make this an "us and them" argument than actually read the words I said. Let's start with my religious stand point. I said earlier in the thread, and it should be a big clue for you as to where my feelings lie, "As an athiest". Throughout this thread I have simply called for perspective. I acknowledge the idiots that approve of violence in the name of Islam and look forward to the day they are locked up, Look back through the thread and you will find similar comments I posted. I also can see that in this thread people have labelled all Muslims as terrorists from the actions of a few. However, some of those same people seem to ignore the Christian extremists who have been just as violent and just as sensitive to free speech. Applying their own logic then surely, all Christians are extremists too? It seems very hypocritical and damaging to an inclusive, and peaceful society to advocate such a position. Al lI have asked for is perspective and tolerence for the vast majority of Muslims who live peaceful lives contributing much to what this country has to offer. To blame innocent people for actions they neither want or have taken is as intollerant as those campaigning against the cartoons or The Jerry Springer Opera.

But you sort of show your hand here again Aussie. For you, it is very much a campaign against what you don't understand. By giving unconditional backing to a faith you feel you understand and the total opposition to one you clearly don't, you have shown your inability to subjective. For you it is Christian good, Islam bad. How well you'd fit inside a dictatorship with your unquestioning loyalty to whoever has the power where you live. Saddam would have loved you.

Such a shame for a man I thought to be quite intelligent.

Gazza
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

another thirty years of mind control how many marching then? a guy was dressed as a suicide bomber in fact he could have been a suicide bomber,It is vital that the world stop being politically correct all the time. So long as the world remains reluctant to call a spade a spade, humanity will remain a target of Islamist barbarism. Appeasement, diplomacy, political expediency and short term commercial interests preventing certain groups and leaders from outright condemnation of Islamists with the hope that their terror will some how spare them, render open societies to the much more horrible consequences than 9/11 and 7/7.

the fact that them marches were illegal and had a police escort seems to slip past everybodys attention, no crash hats visors or batons, which i have been exposed to on some of the protest marches over the years.

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Forward62
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pestcontrol
Feb 6 2006, 03:20 PM
the fact that them marches were illegal ...

I didn't know that
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Tubs2
Paul Tait
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pestcontrol
Feb 6 2006, 03:20 PM
another thirty years of mind control how many marching then? a guy was dressed as a suicide bomber in fact he could have been a suicide bomber,It is vital that the world stop being politically correct all the time. So long as the world remains reluctant to call a spade a spade, humanity will remain a target of Islamist barbarism. Appeasement, diplomacy, political expediency and short term commercial interests preventing certain groups and leaders from outright condemnation of Islamists with the hope that their terror will some how spare them, render open societies to the much more horrible consequences than 9/11 and 7/7.

the fact that them marches were illegal and had a police escort seems to slip past everybodys attention, no crash hats visors or batons, which i have been exposed to on some of the protest marches over the years.

Is this in response to my post?
You seem to be suggesting that I have it wrong.
In that post I suggest that the unjustified persecution of innocent people is wholly wrong and as hateful as the extremists we are both horrified by.
Am I wrong in that suggestion?
Nobody in opposition to my argument has yet made any comment as to why it is just and fair to judge all Muslims on the actions of a few extremists and acceptable to ignore the extremist behaviour of a few Christians? Why are Christians not judged in the same manner. It seems a fair question to me.
No, I'm really interested, why such inconsistancy?
Not an accusation aimed at you, but I can only see 2 reasons for such a position. Either hatred or ignorance. Maybe a combination of the 2. So 3 reasons then.
How can we justify such obvious bigotry?
Quote:
 
another thirty years of minmd control how many marching then?

Is someone controlling your mind. Blimey!
How do they do that?
Is it in some sort of beam broadcast from a satalite dish or ray gun?
Quote:
 
a guy was dressed as a suicide bomber in fact he could have been a suicide bomber,It is vital that the world stop being politically correct all the time.

Where did I say this was acceptable. This is unacceptable. He should be, and indeed was arrested.
Quote:
 
So long as the world remains reluctant to call a spade a spade, humanity will remain a target of Islamist barbarism. Appeasement, diplomacy, political expediency and short term commercial interests preventing certain groups and leaders from outright condemnation of Islamists with the hope that their terror will some how spare them, render open societies to the much more horrible consequences than 9/11 and 7/7.

You're just not listening (or rather reading). I don't want to appease terrorists. I'd like to lock them up. I have been asking that people end this campaign against Islam and turn it to the real threat of terrorists. Thoughout this thread people have been talking of immigrant mulsims as though they are all terrorists. This really isn't helping in the search for a peaceful future. This kind of prejuduice is as vile as those advocating violence in an effort to supress free speech.

Quote:
 
the fact that them marches were illegal and had a police escort seems to slip past everybodys attention, no crash hats visors or batons, which i have been exposed to on some of the protest marches over the years.

Living in a free societey, I would expect people to be able to protest. It is an essential part of the democratic process. I am happy that people were able to protest. I am just as pleased that those promoting violence are to be dealt with by the police.

Gazza
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BluenoseJoJo
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Geoff Horsfield
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No-one has been arrested and that's the main problem. Oh, I tell a lie, two non-muslims were arrested for telling the protestors what they thought of them.
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Forward62
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Malcom Page
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Tubs2
Feb 6 2006, 04:16 PM
Quote:
 
the fact that them marches were illegal and had a police escort seems to slip past everybodys attention, no crash hats visors or batons, which i have been exposed to on some of the protest marches over the years.

Living in a free societey, I would expect people to be able to protest. It is an essential part of the democratic process. I am happy that people were able to protest. I am just as pleased that those promoting violence are to be dealt with by the police.

I thought that you had to consult with the police well in advance if you wanted a demonstration these days. A legal one, anyway
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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Man apologises for bomber protest

Omar Khayam dressed as a suicide bomber in London


A man who dressed as a suicide bomber during a protest about cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad has apologised for his behaviour.
Omar Khayam, 22, from Bedford, "wholeheartedly" apologised to the families of the 7 July bombings.

He likened his own "insensitive" behaviour to the "provocative and controversial" cartoon publication.

Downing Street has said the behaviour of some Muslim protesters in London was "completely unacceptable".

No protesters at the demonstration on Friday and Saturday outside the Danish embassy - over cartoons first printed in a Danish newspaper - were arrested.

But Scotland Yard has said a special squad is investigating the protests and has promised a "swift" inquiry.

Mr Khayam read out his apology outside his Bedford home.

"I found the pictures deeply offensive as a Muslim and I felt the Danish newspaper had been provocative and controversial, deeply offensive and insensitive.

"Just because we have the right of free speech and a free media, it does not mean we may say and do as we please and not take into account the effect it will have on others.


I understand it was wrong, unjustified and insensitive of me to protest in this way

"But by me dressing the way I did, I did just that, exactly the same as the Danish newspaper, if not worse."

He said his method of protest had offended many people, especially the families of the July bombing victims.

"This was not my intention.

"What happened in July was a tragedy and un-Islamic.

"I do not condone these murderous acts, do not support terrorism or extremism and would like to apologise unreservedly and wholeheartedly to the families of the victims."

He added: "I understand it was wrong, unjustified and insensitive of me to protest in this way."

Asif Nadim, from a Bedford mosque, said the Muslim community distanced itself from Mr Khayam's actions and supported his apology.

"Looking at this from an Islamic point of view, this was totally un-Islamic.

"We distance ourselves from the act that he has actually caused and the pain that he has caused for the families of the victims of the London bombings."

He said Mr Khayam was "very, very ashamed" of his actions and hoped that it would be the end of the matter.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke said any decisions on arrest and prosecution were "properly matters for the police and prosecution authorities".

He said that the reaction to the cartoons across Britain had "in general been respectful and restrained".

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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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Cartoon anger is a misrepresentation


By John Simpson
BBC World Affairs Editor


Western embassies in Middle Eastern cities have been torched. Angry crowds have marched in the streets of London carrying placards calling for beheadings and massacres.
Yet despite how it looks on television news, the response to the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad has mostly been non-violent so far.
There were no demonstrations at all in a sizeable number of Muslim countries. In Iran, Egypt, Pakistan and Iraq, the demonstrations passed off quietly.
There has been serious trouble in Gaza, Damascus and Beirut, but in each case, local tensions clearly boiled up and found their expression in this particular issue.
In Syria, such violence is so rare that some people have wondered whether the attacks on the Danish and Norwegian embassies might not have been provoked by government agents, in order to discredit the beleaguered Islamists there.
In Lebanon, the continuing tension between supporters of the Syrians and supporters of the Americans played a part in the violence in Beirut.
When a breakaway group started to attack a Christian church at Ashrafiya, a group of Muslim clerics did everything they could to stop them.
Delayed reaction
How did a series of not particularly well-drawn or funny cartoons, published on 30 September in a Danish newspaper, produce such anger in Europe and the Middle East four months later?
If anyone fanned the flames, it was not Osama Bin Laden.
Instead, it was the mild, distinctly moderate figure of Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the Foreign Minister of Egypt.
As early as November, he was protesting about the cartoons, and calling them an insult.
"Egypt," he said, "has confronted this disgraceful act and will continue to confront such insults."
Perhaps it was a convenient way for the Egyptian government to demonstrate some Islamic credentials while not attacking any of the countries which really matter to Egypt.
He raised the issue at various international meetings. Slowly the news filtered out to the streets.
Past reminders
There are various similarities with the case of Salman Rushdie's book The Satanic Verses.
That also took months to come to general attention in 1989.
It was only when Ayatollah Khomeini was told about the way the book dealt with the Prophet Muhammad that he issued his condemnation of it and his threat to Rushdie's life.
The demonstrations became increasingly violent.
Much the same arguments were used then as now, about where freedom of speech ends and gratuitous insults begin.
Militant secularists clashed on air and in print with militant Islamists, each talking past each other.
At one point, Rushdie recanted and asked for forgiveness. At least one of the book's translators seems to have been murdered.


But The Satanic Verses continued to make good money, and the British government asked Rushdie to pay part of the high cost of his own protection.
Eventually the threat faded, and he went to live in America.
Double standards
In 1989, when the Satanic Verses demonstrations were at their height, I was making my way across Afghanistan to Kabul, which was still in the hands of the pro-Soviet Communists.
My guides came from a group of Islamic mujahideen.
In a cave in the mountains outside the city, I was invited to meet a number of local elders who wanted to know why Britain, or any other Western country, would allow a book which seemed to be so insulting to Islam to be published.
In the chilly gloom of the cave, with a glass of tea and a plate of sugared mulberries in front of me, the magnificent old men with their turbans and beards filed in and sat down on the carpets, their AK-47s beside them.
I began with the quote - attributed to Voltaire - about hating what other people say but fighting to the death for their right to say it.
I told them that the West wanted people to be free to express themselves as they wanted - this, I said, was why Europe and the US had supported the Afghan mujahideen against the Soviet invaders.
They nodded politely, but I could see they were not convinced.
Why, one of the elders asked again and again, did we allow the Prophet Muhammad to be insulted when we knew how much distress it would cause individual Muslims?
He had a point; after all, a number of European countries would not allow a deeply anti-Semitic book to be published, and have made it a criminal offence to deny the Holocaust.
Why should it not also be illegal to insult the Prophet?
Yet insulting and openly anti-Semitic cartoons and articles often appear in the press in Muslim countries, and we in the West rightly find that deeply offensive.
And when extremists march through the streets, applaud bloodthirsty crimes like the attacks of 11 September and 7 July, that is no less insulting than publishing unfunny and deliberately goading cartoons.
We must not imagine this has the support of the great mass of British Muslims.
Quite the contrary: the groups with their ill-spelt placards are just an unrepresentative, repudiated fringe.
In much the same way, we should not think the entire Muslim world is in flames about it.
But we must understand that many Muslims around the world feel increasingly beleaguered.
Increasing that sense will do nothing to help anyone.
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Newdave
Christophe Dugarry
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Tubs2
Feb 6 2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:
 
a guy was dressed as a suicide bomber in fact he could have been a suicide bomber,It is vital that the world stop being politically correct all the time.

Where did I say this was acceptable. This is unacceptable. He should be, and indeed was arrested.


Gazza

According to all the reports I have read and listening to the home secretary today, no arrests were made. It was thought best to allow them to flout the law and, if possible, arrest them at a later date so as not to inflame the situation. I hope they are punished severely or they will keep pushing the boundaries to see how far they can go. A line must be drawn. I can only see further and more violent conflict while one section of society see the laws of Islam as being more important than the laws of Britain.
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garrybaldy
foley okenla, richie moran
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Bear thanks for printing those articles, so the pillock that dressed as a bomber , did not realise he would offend and he is very sorry is he , utter bow locks, he knew exactly what he was doing' as soon as the old bill look like they are going to be man enough to do something about it , all of a sudden he is sorry, dont make me laugh.
Tubs i find your standpoint a little confusing still, are you George Galloway in disguise :lol: :lol:
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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guy who dressed as a suicide bomber

Quote:
 
"Just because we have the right of free speech and a free media, it does not mean we may say and do as we please and not take into account the effect it will have on others.''



truth.ac.uk
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Aussiebrum
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Mikael Forssell
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Muslim and Arab newspapers have anti-semitic and anti Israel and anti US cartoons almost every day.

The anti-semitic cartoons are particularly offensive but there is no censorship efort by the West.

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Dal78
Geoff Horsfield
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mr penguin
Feb 5 2006, 11:23 PM
Dal78
Feb 5 2006, 09:59 PM
I think this thread is great. Heart felt emotions going from deep thinking psychological debate to looking at the socio economical issues within our society now reduced to helping some bloke who was nearly ripped off in a cab.  "no"

no flirting / chatting up though (so far)

Very good memory Mr Penguin. I hope your not stalking me!! :P :P :P
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DANY
Geoff Horsfield
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It seems very strange to me that such a 'peaceful' religion as Islam has caused mass rioting, violence, killing, arsoning and open shows of pure hatred aal accross the globe for nearly a week now all because of a cartoon.

Muslims have done very little change my opinion of them.
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