Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to bcfcforum.co.uk. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Uncomfortable Truth About 'racism'; ...Brum is a prime example.
Topic Started: Jan 27 2006, 07:41 PM (2,327 Views)
k-bek
Member Avatar
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
If the protests and violence are all due to the cartoon printed in European newspapers why were muslims burning Israeli flags as well as Danish flags on the news? It has nothing to do with UK or Israel.

The police should have waded in just like they would have if it was BNP or any other agressive group riottinga nd performing.

To sit down 3 days later and say they should have acted differently is totally negligent by the police.

What is good about this is there are, at last, a very small number of muslims speaking against what APPEARS to be a majority of violent people.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BluenoseJoJo
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
k-bek
Feb 6 2006, 10:16 PM

What is good about this is there are, at last, a very small number of muslims speaking against what APPEARS to be a majority of violent people.

To be honest, there seems to be a majority of muslims SPEAKING OUT AGAINST the extremist muslims protesting, but the extremists obviously demonstrate much louder, in a much more violent manner and therefore more newsworthy manner. They are all we are hearing at the moment but it is wrong to say that they APPEAR to be a majority, that just shows remarkable short sight.

If the police had have dealt with these criminals inciting and threatening murder very quickly and very publicly, we would all be talking quite amicably and sympathising with muslims - we have all had to deal with things that offend us greatly and the best way of doing that is to ignore it, show that we are above all of that and make the insulting party look small, petty and malicious. This strategy works every time!

The worst thing to have happened over the last few days is for criminals to be allowed to carry out criminal acts in full view and with full approval of the law enforcers who were watching them. I will never forget that! It was disgraceful.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
The police (in)action needs to be viewed against the bigger picture.

The big picture is a huge global struggle for the future of muslim countries. The best case (from a western, democratic pov) is that muslim nations gradually embrace democracy & modernity. The worst case is that they embrace fundamentalism.

The deciding factor may well be the hearts & minds of ordinary, devote but non-radical, muslims. If they believe that western democracy is a benign system AND THAT IT IS NOT HOSTILE TO THEIR FAITH then there is a good chance that western democracy will eventually prevail. However, if they believe - as the extremists would like them to - that western culture is antagonistic towards Islam then they are more likely to look to the extremists for security.

If the police had waded in to the demonstrators it would have been a gift to the extremists. The images of muslims battling with police would have been great propaganda for them & they would have used it as "evidence" of the west's hostility towards Islam.

As it is, the extremists looked like extremists. Moderate muslims will have seen the police - and by extension the UK - as being calm, tolerant & not at all anti-muslim. It was a disaster for the extremists.

Yes, the police should - and will - prosecute those who broke the law, but they will do it quietly, professionally & in a manner that reassures, rather than alienates, the majority of the muslim population.

Extremism is defeated by cool heads, not by wading in.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
k-bek
Member Avatar
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
BluenoseJoJo,

I used the word APPEARS to mean just that.

To many it does APPEAR that the majority of muslims are antagonistic and intent on violence.

Why? Because we see very few speaking out about the radicals and loons.

Even after July 7th people were incensed that muslims didn't appear to be condemning the bombings.

I am neither short sighted nor narrow minded.

I do see why some people have blanket views and believe stereotypes though.

Instead of condemning those who only see muslims in a bad light becuase their only experience of them is what they see on TV- evil suicide bombers, western haters, violence, demanding beheadings, no real respect for anything none Islamic, the list is endless.

Yes, the protestors, mobs and rioters have done more to damage the Worldwide view of islam and muslims than anything else.

The lack of visible action from the police has done a lot to fuell the view that it is 1 rule for muslims and another rule for the rest of us also though.

What will ease the situation now is the cooperation of all muslims to allow the police to punish those responsible for the preaching of hatred over the weekend.

If the police are not seen to be doing the right thing and punishing the vile right wing muslims in the same way they penalise the BNP then more fuell will only be added to the fire by the idiots of society. Can people really be condemned for taking the law into their own hands in the face of such adversity when the law enforcers are not seen to be doing what they are paid to do?

The bloke who dressed as a suicide bomber on friday has said sorry. Bless him. Will that now be the end of the matter? I hope not. It would not be acceptable for the BNP leader in court last week to say sorry and be let off. It shouldn't be for that bloke either.

Everyone should be treated equally. All extremists should face punishment. Not just none muslim extremists.



All I am saying is that most of the disharmony, unrest, tensions call ti what you will between sections of society is the way things are not seen as being equal.

I am pleased we have seen muslims speaking out in recent days. It is a step in the right direction. The more who speak out against the radicals and hate mongers the better. Once they realise their support isn't widespread they will have to start calming down. Or will they?

Lst year 3-4 Irish women did more to eradicate the IRA by speaking out about their brother's murder than politicians had done for decades. They stood up to the evil and have at least made some progress. We need morelike these women throughout the World.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Concerned Potato Head
Member Avatar
Big Bawss
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
btw, front page of tomorrows Sun newspaper. that dude who apologised after dressing as a suicide bomber was a convicted drug dealer. so that man wasnt sorry, that man was advised after drawing attention to himself, and his drug dealing associates. well aint that a bitch? :lol:


yet another religious hypocrite :rolleyes:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
k-bek
Member Avatar
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I heard that on the late night news.

This man MUST be penalised for what he did.

He refused to apologise for it all weekend and only did so ebcause someone advised him to.

The question must also be asked- where did he get that gear from anyway? That is worrying in itself.


I thought all drugs were against Islamic law? Doesn't Islam forbid alcohol, drugs and all stuff like that?

Double standards hey?

He's a devout muslim when it suits him to be. When there's trouble to be caused. He's scum.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pestcontrol
Unregistered

@tubs2

i am not the one who wants to bring out laws that makes it illegal for me to voice my fears over a religion and which would have made the life of brian illegal,
but i can understand them wanting to do that if cartoons can cause so much upset Muslims also have to share the guilt of supporting radical Islam's terror campaign by not challenging those Islamists who have imposed themselves as their leaders to carry out their anti-westen agenda. They must realize that individuals and groups claiming to represent them have never raised their voices against open anti-western and anti-Judeo-Christian campaigns being carried out in different parts of the world. These organizations who never miss the slightest opportunity to demonize western anti-terrorist policies have never protested in an effective manner against the beheadings, kidnappings and bombings perpetuated by radical Islamists.

i also noticed that a muslim council spokesman said it was wise that no arrests were made and had no comments of there hate filled placards?, so am i to assume that them are his views as well.

mind control.. a child is taught that one book is the only book that matters and that even ripping a page out of this book is punishable by death and is enforced by law.
i think that even a socialist can see a tiny bit of danger in that.

a british born child who is brought up to beleive that all men are created equal and has no concept of racism up until the goverment bring out laws and words that explain it to him.

adolf hitler, martin luther king, i just know what i have read and been told about them and the fact that a large number of people had to go to the bnp site to view these offending cartoons that upset a billion muslims is worrying.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Forward62
Member Avatar
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
k-bek
Feb 7 2006, 01:46 AM
I thought all drugs were against Islamic law? Doesn't Islam forbid alcohol, drugs and all stuff like that?

For consumption, yes I think so, not sure about supply.

After all, in Afghanistan the Taliban supported the export of heroin to the West
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mr penguin
Sponsored by Flybe.com
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
k-bek
Feb 7 2006, 12:46 AM
Lst year 3-4 Irish women did more to eradicate the IRA by speaking out about their brother's murder than politicians had done for decades.

That is simply untrue.

Defeat of the IRA was due to careful and thoughtful politics over many years. In particular, the government isolated the extremists. This meant avoiding anything that could be seen as a heavy handed approach towards republicanism as this would have driven ordinary moderate republicans towards the IRA.

Same with muslim extremism. Patience and sensitivity will achieve more in the long run than grand gestures or wading in.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Newdave
Feb 6 2006, 05:55 PM
Tubs2
Feb 6 2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:
 
a guy was dressed as a suicide bomber in fact he could have been a suicide bomber,It is vital that the world stop being politically correct all the time.

Where did I say this was acceptable. This is unacceptable. He should be, and indeed was arrested.


Gazza

According to all the reports I have read and listening to the home secretary today, no arrests were made. It was thought best to allow them to flout the law and, if possible, arrest them at a later date so as not to inflame the situation. I hope they are punished severely or they will keep pushing the boundaries to see how far they can go. A line must be drawn. I can only see further and more violent conflict while one section of society see the laws of Islam as being more important than the laws of Britain.

I re-read the article last night and realised I misread it. The report said the police were considering his arrest.

He was arrested this morning.

Gazza
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
garrybaldy
Feb 6 2006, 06:39 PM

Tubs i find your standpoint a little confusing still, are you George Galloway in disguise :lol: :lol:

I wish I had run you down on my bicycle now >;o)

If you confuse me with Georgous you really haven't been listening.

* Blaming innocent people is going to bring us peace.

* Make the guilty pay

* Seek equality, reject hysteria.

Sort of sums it up.

Gazza
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
mr penguin
Feb 6 2006, 11:57 PM
The police (in)action needs to be viewed against the bigger picture.

The big picture is a huge global struggle for the future of muslim countries. The best case (from a western, democratic pov) is that muslim nations gradually embrace democracy & modernity. The worst case is that they embrace fundamentalism.

The deciding factor may well be the hearts & minds of ordinary, devote but non-radical, muslims. If they believe that western democracy is a benign system AND THAT IT IS NOT HOSTILE TO THEIR FAITH then there is a good chance that western democracy will eventually prevail. However, if they believe - as the extremists would like them to - that western culture is antagonistic towards Islam then they are more likely to look to the extremists for security.

If the police had waded in to the demonstrators it would have been a gift to the extremists. The images of muslims battling with police would have been great propaganda for them & they would have used it as "evidence" of the west's hostility towards Islam.

As it is, the extremists looked like extremists. Moderate muslims will have seen the police - and by extension the UK - as being calm, tolerant & not at all anti-muslim. It was a disaster for the extremists.

Yes, the police should - and will - prosecute those who broke the law, but they will do it quietly, professionally & in a manner that reassures, rather than alienates, the majority of the muslim population.

Extremism is defeated by cool heads, not by wading in.

Hurrah!

Well said.

Gazza
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
pestcontrol
Feb 7 2006, 04:18 AM
@tubs2

i am not the one who wants to bring out laws that makes it illegal for me to voice my fears over a religion and which would have made the life of brian illegal,

Nor me.

For a start, I'm a big python fan.

But if you think that's what I want, you haven't been reading my posts.

Quote:
 
but i can understand them wanting to do that if cartoons can cause so much upset Muslims also have to share the guilt of supporting radical Islam's terror campaign by not challenging those Islamists who have imposed themselves as their leaders to carry out their anti-westen agenda. They must realize that individuals and groups claiming to represent them have never raised their voices against open anti-western and anti-Judeo-Christian campaigns being carried out in different parts of the world. These organizations who never miss the slightest opportunity to demonize western anti-terrorist policies have never protested in an effective manner against the beheadings, kidnappings and bombings perpetuated by radical Islamists.

And by reacting against all Muslims we will fix this problem?

What, even the vast majority of moderate Muslims who go about life in this country in much the same way as you and I?

Quote:
 
i also noticed that a muslim council spokesman said it was wise that no arrests were made and had no comments of there hate filled placards?, so am i to assume that them are his views as well.

Well I don't agree with him.

Neither did many of the Muslims that wrote into the papers yesterday.

Quote:
 
mind control.. a child is taught that one book is the only book that matters and that even ripping a page out of this book is punishable by death and is enforced by law.
i think that even a socialist can see a tiny bit of danger in that.

See what ya did there?

All Muslims believe this eh?

Sort of the point I'm making, ain't it?

Quote:
 
a british born child who is brought up to beleive that all men are created equal and has no concept of racism up until the goverment bring out laws and words that explain it to him.

Most British born people have no concpet of racism because they aren't subjegated by it. The laws are there to protect the few that are aware of racism because they are on the receiving end of it. Having said that, the new laws under proposal at the moment are a farce.

Quote:
 
adolf hitler, martin luther king, i just know what i have read and been told about them and the fact that a large number of people had to go to the bnp site to view these offending cartoons that upset a billion muslims is worrying.

What is worrying is the motives for which the BNP would publish them. Free speach? You're having a laugh.

BTW, what have you been told about AH and MLK?

Gazza
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dr.nick
Member Avatar
Trevor Francis
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
i'll tell you thw unco0mfortable truth about racism............................................

a skinheads size 10 doctor martin boot up the jacksee.

oooooooo that smarts. ;)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
dr.nick
Feb 7 2006, 02:06 PM
i'll tell you thw unco0mfortable truth about racism............................................

a skinheads size 10 doctor martin boot up the jacksee.

oooooooo that smarts. ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
garrybaldy
foley okenla, richie moran
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Hey Mr tubs , it was a joke, i can see i am going to have to watch my step when getting out my car from now on eh!!!!! :lol: :lol: . Course i can see where you really are coming from, i find it quite admirable **thumbup
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pestcontrol
Unregistered

@tubs2


And by reacting against all Muslims we will fix this problem?

What, even the vast majority of moderate Muslims who go about life in this country in much the same way as you and I?

no but arresting the criminals at the time would set an example, where have i said anything about reacting against ALL muslims?


Well I don't agree with him.

Neither did many of the Muslims that wrote into the papers yesterday

funny how they agree most other times, who funds organisations like them?

And by reacting against all Muslims we will fix this problem?

What, even the vast majority of moderate Muslims who go about life in this country in much the same way as you and I?

do they?

See what ya did there?

All Muslims believe this eh?

Sort of the point I'm making, ain't it?

seems like most of them not living here do and how long before that changes? if the police wont arrest there criminals in full view of the media.

i could go on until im blue in the face but socialists and tolerance

do you know anything about the islamic time line? see what happens about august september and then come back spouting tolerance.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
garrybaldy
Feb 7 2006, 03:18 PM
Hey Mr tubs , it was a joke, i can see i am going to have to watch my step when getting out my car from now on eh!!!!! :lol: :lol: . Course i can see where you really are coming from, i find it quite admirable **thumbup

Well I don't find it funny.

Just watch yourself, bikes are silent y'know and I can sneak up on ya!

Gazza

(I knew you were joiking. I was joining in. Except for the threat of bike-acide)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tubs2
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
pestcontrol
Feb 7 2006, 03:38 PM
@tubs2


And by reacting against all Muslims we will fix this problem?

What, even the vast majority of moderate Muslims who go about life in this country in much the same way as you and I?

no but arresting the criminals at the time would set an example, where have i said anything about reacting against ALL muslims?


Well I don't agree with him.

Neither did many of the Muslims that wrote into the papers yesterday

funny how they agree most other times, who funds organisations like them?

And by reacting against all Muslims we will fix this problem?

What, even the vast majority of moderate Muslims who go about life in this country in much the same way as you and I?

do they?

See what ya did there?

All Muslims believe this eh?

Sort of the point I'm making, ain't it?

seems like most of them not living here do and how long before that changes? if the police wont arrest there criminals in full view of the media.

i could go on until im blue in the face but socialists and tolerance

do you know anything about the islamic time line? see what happens about august september and then come back spouting tolerance.

I'm a little confused.

Quote:
 
no but arresting the criminals at the time would set an example, where have i said anything about reacting against ALL muslims?

So you agree that Most Muslims are just like you and I. Oh good!

Quote:
 
funny how they agree most other times, who funds organisations like them?

Eh, now you seem to be suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists. Unless I misunderstand, you even suggest that the terrorism is funded by Muslims?

In a small part that might be true. But all of them?

For years the IRA were funded by Christian Americans via organisations such as Noraid as well as the Irish. As British people did we fear all Americans and Irish?

Of course not. For some reason we could see through the fear and understood it was a tiny minority of people. Why are you unable to see though the hysteria around Islam?

So which is it? What do you really think/ Should we fear all Muslims like the BNP teach, or are we actually looking at the world around us and can see that we should only fear extremists? Who fortunately are very few and far between in whichever faith we speak of.

And what do you know about AH and MLK?

Gazza
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
« Previous Topic · General Chat · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Forum Design by Hirsty.