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Wayne Rooney
Topic Started: Jun 4 2014, 09:52 PM (1,140 Views)
boilerman
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Frank Worthington
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lowdham bluenose
Jun 15 2014, 12:24 PM
boilerman
Jun 15 2014, 12:00 PM
Fair enough lads, thats your view, but........

I think they should build the team around him and not have him in his present role. He will always have enough class to do the special things, like that inch perfect cross that changed the game, thats why he should be in the team. In my very humble opinion. :angel:

Tin hat, at the ready.

Sorry boilerman, it's taxi for Rooney.

PS How's the tin hat?
Dented but not quite holed :)
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clapton bluenose
Alex Govan
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He is played on the wing for club when Van Persie is fit for a reason. Some England fans need to see that he is no longer the main man for a starting role as striker.

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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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clapton bluenose
Jun 15 2014, 02:27 PM
He is played on the wing for club when Van Persie is fit for a reason. Some England fans need to see that he is no longer the main man for a starting role as striker.

He thinks he's the main man at Man U...I can't wait to see what happens when the Holland manager takes over and starts treating Van Persie as the main man.

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brad1875
Alex Govan
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Someone said to me last night that England always struggle to do well against the good sides because we play the names and not the tactics.

If you look at other Countries, they play the best players to suit the system and not always the best individual players or biggest names.

Rooney did not suit that system we played last night at all. We needed pace in all 3 of those attacking midfield positions and let's face it, Rooney doesn't provide us with pace.

Also, Gerrard was once again anonymous for England in a big game in CM. However, i would still play him as we do need some experience out there.

For the Uruguay game i would play Sterling, Barkley, Wellbeck behind Sturridge.

I am however starting to wonder that our formation leaves our defence far to exposed down the flanks.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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boilerman
Jun 15 2014, 12:00 PM
Fair enough lads, thats your view, but........

I think they should build the team around him and not have him in his present role. He will always have enough class to do the special things, like that inch perfect cross that changed the game, thats why he should be in the team. In my very humble opinion. :angel:

Tin hat, at the ready.
No need for the tin hat, boiler

Your post is logical

There are not many other players in the England squad who could have picked out Sturridge like that....it was a world class, defense splitting pass that landed on a sixpence forDaniel Sturridge to sweep in .....and Wayne used his weakest foot as well **thumbup


KRO







Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 15 2014, 06:11 PM.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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brad1875
Jun 15 2014, 02:51 PM
Someone said to me last night that England always struggle to do well against the good sides because we play the names and not the tactics.

We only lose to the big teams because we cannot take penalty kicks as well

We beat Germany on their own soil 5-1 not that long ago........and beat them again (In the Euros I think)

At the 2002 WC we also beat Argentina .....Thanks to a penalty by Becks ironically :LMAO:

We drew with France at the last Euros and also recently held Holland 2-2 after coming back from behind

The 2010 World Cup was a disaster ....because we had a muppet in charge who installed boot camp mentality into the squad

But we were actually quite unlucky not to progress in all three of the previous three World Cups....being reduced to ten men in two of the games had a lot to do with that too




KRO







Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 16 2014, 07:37 AM.
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clapton bluenose
Alex Govan
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It looks as if Roy is considering bringing Rooney into a more central position. If this means pushing Sterling out to the wing I for one will be very annoyed. I realise lots of people including some ex players ie Ferndinand and Neville think this might benefit the team better however I am of a different opinion.

I loved the pace and agility the axis of Sturridge and Sterling provided and cannot possibly see what Rooney can do to improve us in that area. Pace is something not even the best defences can stop. It's a weapon we should be working on to maximise its effect.

Please please Roy don't lose your nerve on this one. If he was strong he would have took Rooney off to give Baines the protection he needed. That mistake led to us conceding the second goal. I hope it's a mistake he learns from quickly.
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franscar
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But Sterling is a winger, and Uruguay's full backs are garbage. And slow garbage at that. Get Sterling out on the touch line and Uruguay will either be forced to sit incredibly deep, which will give Rooney more space in the middle, or they'll have to play a perfect offside trap every time England go forward. Quite why England have to be so rigid though I don't know. Let Wellbeck, Rooney and Sterling switch positions constantly, like all good attackinv sides do.

And blaming Rooney for the Italian second is incredibly harsh. He'd started the second half centrally and it was Wellbeck that was too slow to track back, Baines who was too far off Candreva allowing him to get an unchallenged cross in, and Cahill allowing himself to be dragged under the ball.
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lowdham bluenose
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clapton bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 07:02 AM
I realise lots of people including some ex players ie Ferndinand and Neville think this might benefit the team better however I am of a different opinion.

Ex-players in the media never say a bad word about their fellow professionals. I notice this all the time on TalkSPORT when the media-professionals have a story and an opinion but their ex-pro footballer co-host or guest never expresses an opinion against a fellow footballing pro. It's a complete waste of time having them on. Also in this case Clapton, the ex-pros are Rooney's Man U mates!!! They're hardly going say anything else.
Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 16 2014, 09:21 AM.
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lowdham bluenose
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franscar
Jun 16 2014, 08:20 AM
But Sterling is a winger,
He's palyed the No10 role at Liverpool. Also the Ox has played the No10 role at Arsenal, Oh and Barlkley has played the No.10 role for Everton.

Just why do people think Rooney has to play? We have suffered this "they have to play" nonsense since 2002 with Lampard and Gerrard. Why can't they learn from Sir Alf and 66 where the best team was picked at the expense of the 11 so-called best players. Jeff Hurst for example and the young kid Alan Ball.

This England team and the England team of the future should be looking to proceed without Rooney. Rooney has had enough chances since 2004.
Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 16 2014, 09:19 AM.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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Sterling much more often than not plays on the wing, otherwise you'd have Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez all in the same part of the field getting in one another's way.

Nobody thinks Rooney 'has to play', but he has a range of passing and an experience of highest-level pressure that none of the other players at the top end of the pitch have. Why do some people think it necessary to pour over his every contribution to the game and criticise everything that is not absolutely perfect? This is a World Cup nobody expects England to win, a tournament which was allegedly going to see a relaxation of the ludicrous over-expectations of previous tournaments, and yet after one defeat to the four time champions, it's back to the same old, 'such and such misplaced a pass after 63 minutes, gerrim off!' that has been a tedious compliment to every England tournament since 2002.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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In my own defence, it is not a knee-jerk reaction from myself. Since 2010 I sussed Rooney was never world class and is hyped. I have been consistent with this opinion for 4 years now. Look back on some historical threads on here and I got some right slatings for saying so.

He just doesn't perform on the big stages for both club and country.
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abblue
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Stirling is primarily a right winger - play him on the right wing.

Sturridge is a centre forward - play him as a centre forward.

Roney is a centre forward/No. 10 - play him as a centre forward/No.10.

Welbeck is not a left winger - find a genuine left winger who can also help in defence (OK, we may not have one in the squad but try Shaw or Milner ?) - which is the area we got beaten by on Saturday.

Simples - where's the problem ?
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clapton bluenose
Alex Govan
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lowdham bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 09:13 AM
clapton bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 07:02 AM
I realise lots of people including some ex players ie Ferndinand and Neville think this might benefit the team better however I am of a different opinion.

Ex-players in the media never say a bad word about their fellow professionals. I notice this all the time on TalkSPORT when the media-professionals have a story and an opinion but their ex-pro footballer co-host or guest never expresses an opinion against a fellow footballing pro. It's a complete waste of time having them on. Also in this case Clapton, the ex-pros are Rooney's Man U mates!!! They're hardly going say anything else.
That's true unless your Paul Scholes, who has said Publically what you and i have been saying since 2010.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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clapton bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 10:04 AM
lowdham bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 09:13 AM
clapton bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 07:02 AM
I realise lots of people including some ex players ie Ferndinand and Neville think this might benefit the team better however I am of a different opinion.

Ex-players in the media never say a bad word about their fellow professionals. I notice this all the time on TalkSPORT when the media-professionals have a story and an opinion but their ex-pro footballer co-host or guest never expresses an opinion against a fellow footballing pro. It's a complete waste of time having them on. Also in this case Clapton, the ex-pros are Rooney's Man U mates!!! They're hardly going say anything else.
That's true unless your Paul Scholes, who has said Publically what you and i have been saying since 2010.
Oh yes, Paul Scholes. What a breath of fresh air he is and from someone who has shyed away from the press and the limelight totally up to now. I liked his on air comments regarding Moyes and another time regarding Wilshire.

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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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lowdham bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 09:43 AM
In my own defence, it is not a knee-jerk reaction from myself. Since 2010 I sussed Rooney was never world class and is hyped. I have been consistent with this opinion for 4 years now. Look back on some historical threads on here and I got some right slatings for saying so.

He just doesn't perform on the big stages for both club and country.
Which largely suggests that you are going to go out of your way to find things which confirm your pre-existing bias. Pretty much what certain people do with regard to Zigic. Ho hum.

The term 'world class' is ridiculously vague anyway and can be as broad or as rigid as you like. How many 'world class' players are there in the 'number 10' position?
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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franscar
Jun 16 2014, 10:42 AM
Which largely suggests that you are going to go out of your way to find things which confirm your pre-existing bias.
...I would say it largely suggests that nothing has changed over the last 4 years - a Euro where he did not perform and 4 CLs where he did not perform in the knock out stages.

As a minimum, for me world class means you have made the team of the tournament in the WC or Euros, or you have made FIFA's team of the year.
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clapton bluenose
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World class for me means your within the 2-3 of the best players in that position. As a number 9 or 10 Rooney doesn't get close.
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franscar
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Under that narrow definition then I would agree Rooney is not world class, and only Ashley Cole would come close to it over the last ten years of international football. Fair enough.

But you keep on repeating this notion that Rooney hasn't performed in the knockout phases of the Champions League. He has. He's scored against some of the best, and in some of the biggest games. Nobody outside of Messi and Ronaldo score against everybody all of the time. Nobody is pretending Rooney is in the same bracket as either of those players.
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pooley
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Sterling out wide will destroy the full backs and we all know what lambert can do as long as we get decent crosses in. Also as Rooney has a bigger name than lambert he will take defenders attention away from lambert
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murasame
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The trouble with Wayne Rooney, much like David Beckham before him, is that he was hyped to such an extent as a youngster by our media that anything less than a man of the match performance is considered having a bad game. In reality his contribution is generally no worse than anybody else's, it's just that our expectations are so high that anything approaching an average performance is seen as a massive failure and justification for being dropped.

That's not to say we don't have every right to expect highly of him. Looking back at Euro 2004 when he lit up the tournament with his performances as a teenager and compare it to the slightly older Cristiano Ronaldo in the same competition there was no doubt who looked the better player. Yet over the following decade Ronaldo has developed into one of the greatest players in the history of the game, while Rooney is merely a very good one but not in my opinion world class*.

For one reason or another Rooney has failed to develop into the superstar everyone thought he would and if anything he has declined. He already seems to have lost that yard of pace and when was the last time we saw him running at defenders and turning them inside out with his skills and trickery that was such a trademark of his early career? It was so long ago I can't even remember!

There is no reason why he has to be made a scapegoat for every bad result, but neither should he be an automatic selection come what may. There are better options to play on the wing than Rooney, so if Roy Hodgson wants to play Strurridge and Sterling as his centre forward partnership then Rooney has to drop to the bench. Simple as that.

*For me "world class" defines a player who would be selected if they ever had to assemble a 23-man World All-star squad, so basically just the top two or three players globally in each position.
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pooley
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murasame
Jun 16 2014, 05:45 PM
The trouble with Wayne Rooney, much like David Beckham before him, is that he was hyped to such an extent as a youngster by our media that anything less than a man of the match performance is considered having a bad game. In reality his contribution is generally no worse than anybody else's, it's just that our expectations are so high that anything approaching an average performance is seen as a massive failure and justification for being dropped.

That's not to say we don't have every right to expect highly of him. Looking back at Euro 2004 when he lit up the tournament with his performances as a teenager and compare it to the slightly older Cristiano Ronaldo in the same competition there was no doubt who looked the better player. Yet over the following decade Ronaldo has developed into one of the greatest players in the history of the game, while Rooney is merely a very good one but not in my opinion world class*.

For one reason or another Rooney has failed to develop into the superstar everyone thought he would and if anything he has declined. He already seems to have lost that yard of pace and when was the last time we saw him running at defenders and turning them inside out with his skills and trickery that was such a trademark of his early career? It was so long ago I can't even remember!

There is no reason why he has to be made a scapegoat for every bad result, but neither should he be an automatic selection come what may. There are better options to play on the wing than Rooney, so if Roy Hodgson wants to play Strurridge and Sterling as his centre forward partnership then Rooney has to drop to the bench. Simple as that.

*For me "world class" defines a player who would be selected if they ever had to assemble a 23-man World All-star squad, so basically just the top two or three players globally in each position.
This is the problem with the british media as a whole - not just football or sport.

I recently reda book on mudhoney (us rock band) where they mentioned they got critical acclaim in the uk before the us, but they knew it was only a time before the uk media would turn on them as they only set people up to be knocked down.

Its tantamount to the boy at school who asks out a girl who says no and then the boy turns round saying "well I never liked you anyway" - hype us up before the tournament, when we do poor they come out with "well we knew we'd be rubbish anyway"
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clapton bluenose
Alex Govan
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franscar
Jun 16 2014, 02:01 PM
Under that narrow definition then I would agree Rooney is not world class, and only Ashley Cole would come close to it over the last ten years of international football. Fair enough.

But you keep on repeating this notion that Rooney hasn't performed in the knockout phases of the Champions League. He has. He's scored against some of the best, and in some of the biggest games. Nobody outside of Messi and Ronaldo score against everybody all of the time. Nobody is pretending Rooney is in the same bracket as either of those players.


That's being my main point all along he is not in the top bracket of players in his position but for some reason he gets more money than he really deserves. Alex Ferguson had to play him wide also because it was the right thing to do with van persie there.

If we play Rooney in a central position Thursday and he fails to deliver it will be carnage in the press leaving him in a very precarious position.

It could end up damaging his confidence even more. I think he needs protecting right now as the knives are out waiting to cut him to pieces.
Edited by clapton bluenose, Jun 16 2014, 07:48 PM.
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Lewis
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Paul Tait
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Seems to me that Rooney's ineptitude, Johnson's clumsiness and Gerrard's disappearing act were the worst things about the performance against Italy.

I can understand Hodgson playing some of the old guard as you need new/old balance in a team, but somehow he has to get these player to contribute. Rooney just about saved himself with the assist, but no-where near enough in the game.

Trouble is these three play to a style that is becoming outdated for England, and that is in the longer term great news, but for now it is a conundrum that the manager has to deal with more effectively.

A note on an old boy too. I was not over impressed with Hart, on a Birmingham City day he would have saved at least one of those goals. poor kicking out too, again.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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clapton bluenose
Jun 16 2014, 07:44 PM


If we play Rooney in a central position Thursday and he fails to deliver it will be carnage in the press leaving him in a very precarious position.

It could end up damaging his confidence even more. I think he needs protecting right now as the knives are out waiting to cut him to pieces.
I agree and nobody wants to see the press going to town on him, well I don't anyway. As I have said I don't think he should play as we have more than one player who can replace him and I think would contribute to the team more. If he does play then let's hope he does something special that earns his place and keeps the daggers of the press at bay.

Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 17 2014, 09:18 AM.
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