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Wayne Rooney
Topic Started: Jun 4 2014, 09:52 PM (1,138 Views)
lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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franscar
Jun 20 2014, 12:19 PM
lowdham bluenose
Jun 20 2014, 10:40 AM
franscar
Jun 20 2014, 10:32 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What are your excuses for Rooney in 2006, 2010 and 2012?

He's a serial failure on the big stage. It'll be interesting to see how the new Man U manager is going to accommodate him with RVP.

Five Premier Leagues, a European Cup, a Club World Cup and two League Cups.

Starter at one of the biggest clubs in the world for the last ten years. Highest scoring Englishman ever in the Champions League.

Serial failure.

The 'excuse' for Rooney at major international tournaments is quite simple really: England aren't very good. That isn't Wayne Rooney's fault, it's the fault of several generations that have demanded instant success at the cost of long-term development, complained about the lack of long-term development, and then continued demanding instant success.

Same thing is still going on now, despite the fact that all England have done in this World Cup is lose narrowly to two sides rated higher than them in the world rankings, with a side containing a number of inexperienced young players. Wayne Rooney was designated the scapegoat before the football even began, and, true to form, he's getting it in the neck despite the captain being utterly inconsequential in both games.

Rooney has scored a goal and set one up. England are out because they have conceded four times in two games. Only someone who decided they were blaming Rooney for England's inevitable failure before the tournament would persist in this bizarre line of argument. Nobody is going to buy it just because you keep on, relentlessly, tediously saying it. A goal and an assist in two games is not serial failure in anyone's book.
It;'s strange how Luis Suarez performed on that very same world stage last nigh...and I tell you what, he is surrounded by poorer players than those in the England side.

Now that's what I call performing on the world stage.



Wayne Rooney, top performer.....my ass.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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Is this the same Luis Suarez who couldn't score against any of the other three teams in the top four this season?

Your idea of 'performing on the world stage' appears to hinge entirely on being gifted a through pass from the opposition captain. Rooney wasn't, and 'only' scored once. Suarez was, and that's 'performing'?

Time for you to change the goalposts again, this one doesn't stack up either.

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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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franscar
Jun 20 2014, 02:03 PM
Is this the same Luis Suarez who couldn't score against any of the other three teams in the top four this season?

Your idea of 'performing on the world stage' appears to hinge entirely on being gifted a through pass from the opposition captain. Rooney wasn't, and 'only' scored once. Suarez was, and that's 'performing'?

Time for you to change the goalposts again, this one doesn't stack up either.

My word, every pundit around the world is applauding the world class finishing and world class anticipation of Luis Suarez last night ...but not you because it doesn't hold up in your defence of Rooney.

I'd stick to trying to defend the radical muslims on the other threrad if I was you.
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franscar
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He's a great player. His talent is in no way diminished or increased by virtue of Wayne Rooney having had a decent game.

Your argument originally was that Wayne Rooney never performed on the big stage. That has been proven to be false.

Your argument then switched to claim that Luis Suarez was a world class performer. I merely pointed out that, according to your own metrics (scoring against the biggest and the best, and in the latter stages of the Champions League), he isn't. He failed to register a single goal against Arsenal, Chelsea or Manchester City last season, and has not yet made any kind of impact on the Champions League.

Yet you're calling him 'world class', and Rooney (5 league titles, 1 European Cup, 40 international goals, et al) a 'serial failure'.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to anybody but yourself. By dragging up a spurious claim that I 'defend' radical muslims you're just making yourself look silly. I do no such thing, merely refuse to tar all followers of a certain faith with the actions of a tiny, tiny minority.

I refuse to believe that such a position is too nuanced for a man of your age to comprehend.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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franscar
Jun 20 2014, 03:10 PM


Yet you're calling him 'world class', and Rooney (5 league titles, 1 European Cup, 40 international goals, et al) a 'serial failure'.

Y
A serial failure on the big stage. Collect the medals yes ( just like Fabio and the other one) but it's the big stage where he goes missing. Every single time.

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brad1875
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Last night's performances of Suarez and Rooney summed up the difference between a world class player, and a very good player.
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PartisanBCFC
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franscar
Jun 20 2014, 03:10 PM
He's a great player. His talent is in no way diminished or increased by virtue of Wayne Rooney having had a decent game.

Your argument originally was that Wayne Rooney never performed on the big stage. That has been proven to be false.

Your argument then switched to claim that Luis Suarez was a world class performer. I merely pointed out that, according to your own metrics (scoring against the biggest and the best, and in the latter stages of the Champions League), he isn't. He failed to register a single goal against Arsenal, Chelsea or Manchester City last season, and has not yet made any kind of impact on the Champions League.

Yet you're calling him 'world class', and Rooney (5 league titles, 1 European Cup, 40 international goals, et al) a 'serial failure'.

Your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to anybody but yourself. By dragging up a spurious claim that I 'defend' radical muslims you're just making yourself look silly. I do no such thing, merely refuse to tar all followers of a certain faith with the actions of a tiny, tiny minority.

I refuse to believe that such a position is too nuanced for a man of your age to comprehend.
Excellent post :applause:

I had no clue that Suarez hadn't scored against any of the other Top 4

Hmmm.....interesting

I had to laugh at his statement that Uruguay had poorer players around Suarez as compared to the players around Rooney ......you could even make the same claim for Wayne Rooney......I bet Rooney wishes he could have been given a clear cut chance with only the keeper to beat from a wayward back header from the Uruguay captain and where the two central Uruguayan defenders supposedly marking him were standing still several yards away and also a hoof ball clearance from the keeper


Quote:
 
Your argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to anybody but yourself.


Best one line sentence of the Year so far

:applause:
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 04:41 PM
Last night's performances of Suarez and Rooney summed up the difference between a world class player, and a very good player.
I think that's pushing it TBH

No doubting Suarez is one of the top strikers in the world .....even Barcelona are ready to pay 52 million for him......but several clubs in Europe have showed interest in Rooney , Chelsea even made a huge bid that was turned down by United

However if Suarez fails to score v Italy and Rooney scores two against Costa Rica, then Rooney will have scored more in this WC .....Italy only need a draw v Uruguay to go through don't forget

Just saying like......there is a possibility this could happen



:Eng01:


Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 20 2014, 07:05 PM.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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lowdham bluenose
Jun 20 2014, 12:03 PM
Yes he scores goals in those games but where is he on the big stage. Nowhere.

What about the scissors kick v Manchester City ?

And I'm almost certain he has scored a few against Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal as well

He made a huge impact in the 2004 Euros and has been one of our better performances in this current World Cup albeit our shortest participation since 1958.......Rooney was also the top scorer for qualification was he not ? .....and in fact in 1974, 1978 and 1994 England could not even qualify for the WC with much better players from those eras than we have currently

So again, your one man agenda against the guy and clearly making him the scapegoat for the failures of the England sides over the last few years is just foolhardy ....and totally laughable


:LMAO:


Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 20 2014, 07:14 PM.
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brad1875
Alex Govan
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 20 2014, 07:04 PM
brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 04:41 PM
Last night's performances of Suarez and Rooney summed up the difference between a world class player, and a very good player.
I think that's pushing it TBH

However if Suarez fails to score v Italy and Rooney scores two against Costa Rica, then Rooney will have scored more in this WC .....Italy only need a draw v Uruguay to go through don't forget




Why? Suarez has 2 chances, he scores two goals. Rooney has 3 and he scores 1.

World class strikers put away their chances in the big games.

Also, Suarez has played only 1 WC match in Brazil and still doubles Rooney's entire WC goal tally in that one game.



Don't get me wrong though, Rooney has been England's best player this WC but I just don't think he should be mentioned in the same bracket as Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo etc. [i.e. world class players].
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 20 2014, 07:13 PM
lowdham bluenose
Jun 20 2014, 12:03 PM
Yes he scores goals in those games but where is he on the big stage. Nowhere.

What about the scissors kick v Manchester City ?


The one that came off his shin, you're quite right, I remember that.
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clapton bluenose
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I love it when people mention that goal against man city whom at the time were not the team we see today. How many goals as he scored against man city in the last 3 seasons?

I don't dislike Rooney but hate the hype that surrounds a player that is way short of being world class. The media likened him to greats and labelled him the white pele. That title has made him a scrape goat for people like myself as it doesn't stack up.

Rooney played as a number 10 fails to dictate the pace of a game he fails to light up a game with a bit of magic and he fails to dig his teams out of the mire when it's needed most.

When I think of a number 10 I see players like zidane, platini, zico, maradona and messi. All these players stamp their presence on a game. All were truly world class.

Messi is starting to shine for Argentina, his goal stats since the appointment of their current coach is highly impressive. They are my tip to win this World Cup.

Lowds is right in some of what he points out. Rooney might well have stats that suggest he is one of England's and Man U's greatest players but stats don't tell the full story.

More games are played in the modern era compared to days gone by. We have a champions league and not the European cup. If England's qualifying groups for world cups contained 3 really decent sides that goal tally would decrease.
Edited by clapton bluenose, Jun 21 2014, 06:15 AM.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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bluenose abroad
Jun 20 2014, 10:50 PM
PartisanBCFC
Jun 20 2014, 07:13 PM
lowdham bluenose
Jun 20 2014, 12:03 PM
Yes he scores goals in those games but where is he on the big stage. Nowhere.

What about the scissors kick v Manchester City ?


The one that came off his shin, you're quite right, I remember that.
This just baffles me. How can anyone who enjoys football criticize that goal? Fair enough an embittered Man City fan, but anyone else degrading it just seems like they must hate football. I've heard similar criticisms of the goal against West Ham this season because the ball nearly went over the bar.

Regardless of precisely where on his leg it hit (and frankly, without hd and 6 million replays at super slow motion it would be impossible to tell, something the greats of yesteryear didn't have to put up with) it was a beautiful goal.

- - -

As for his record against City in the last three seasons, he got one against them at the Etihad when United lost 4-1, he got two at the Etihad the season before in a 3-2 United win, and the season before that he scored twice against them in a 3-2 cup win.

Without checking against every other striker in the league, I'm guessing very few have scored five goals in their last eight (6 league, 1 FA Cup, 1 Charity Shield) against Man City.

Still though, never turns up.
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clapton bluenose
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Good article whilst not agreeing with everything it says it is a good overall analysis of England and Rooney.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10913397/Wayne-Rooney-Englands-best-player-but-destined-never-to-be-a-World-Cup-great.html
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clapton bluenose
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Franscar thanks for the Rooney stats against city I concede it's better than I thought it was.
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Frans, I'm not criticizing the goal, but I don't buy in to the general consensus that it was a goal of outstanding quality. He meant to get it on target, but it was lucky in the fact he shinned it. As for his performance in the World Cup I thought he was probably our best player against Uruguay.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 20 2014, 07:13 PM
lowdham bluenose
Jun 20 2014, 12:03 PM
Yes he scores goals in those games but where is he on the big stage. Nowhere.

What about the scissors kick v Manchester City
:LMAO:

You've proved my point Parti. Of the hundred or so "big" games that Rooney has played in he scored one goal to remember... and by the way Parti, he shinned that goal.

Now then, Cristiano Ronaldo has scored loads in big games this season alone - the most memorable being his brace in the all-important WC play-off in Sweden. Now, there's a world-class player.
Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 21 2014, 09:52 AM.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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franscar
Jun 21 2014, 08:11 AM
bluenose abroad
Jun 20 2014, 10:50 PM
PartisanBCFC
Jun 20 2014, 07:13 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The one that came off his shin, you're quite right, I remember that.
This just baffles me. How can anyone who enjoys football criticize that goal? Fair enough an embittered Man City fan, but anyone else degrading it just seems like they must hate football. I've heard similar criticisms of the goal against West Ham this season because the ball nearly went over the bar.

Regardless of precisely where on his leg it hit (and frankly, without hd and 6 million replays at super slow motion it would be impossible to tell, something the greats of yesteryear didn't have to put up with) it was a beautiful goal.

- - -

As for his record against City in the last three seasons, he got one against them at the Etihad when United lost 4-1, he got two at the Etihad the season before in a 3-2 United win, and the season before that he scored twice against them in a 3-2 cup win.

Without checking against every other striker in the league, I'm guessing very few have scored five goals in their last eight (6 league, 1 FA Cup, 1 Charity Shield) against Man City.

Still though, never turns up.
Can you list his goals on the big stage games in the World Cup Finals, the Euros and the Champions League knock-out ties?

Scoring against Jolian Lescott is hardly big game tough opposition. And that FA Cup game was when Vincent Kompany had been sent off.

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franscar
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See, he can't win can he? You move the goalposts any time someone counters you, and throw an asterisk in the way of everything the bloke has ever achieved. Five goals in his last eight games against Manchester City, so now you move the goalposts again and claim that they don't count unless Vincent Kompany is on the field? Which, by the way, he was for the first of Rooney's two goals in that cup game, as he was in this season's league game and when Rooney scored his first of two at the Etihad the season before. So that's three out of his five goals against Man. City in the last three seasons scored when Kompany was playing, as if that makes any difference whatsoever.

Some might suggest that scoring against Phil Jagielka and whoever plays for Norwich these days is hardly 'big game tough opposition' but you're creaming yourself over Luis Suarez for doing it.

He's scored against Leverkusen, Braga, Otelul Galati, Rangers, Chelsea, Schalke, Barcelona, Milan, Bayern, Aaborg, Celtic, Porto, Roma, Dynamo Kiev, Debrecen and Fenerbahce. All garbage, obviously. Show me an English striker who can boast a better record.

By way of comparison for your 'oh look at all those easy games they play in Europe these days, not like the olden days', here's the list of teams the Villa beat in 1982: Valur (Iceland, in case you'd never heard of them), Dynamo Berlin, Dynamo Kiev, Anderlecht and Bayern Munich. Wall to wall quality there. How about Forest in 1979? They beat Liverpool, AEK, Grasshoppers, Koln and Malmo. That's it.

And yet, somehow, despite apparently being no good and never showing up, there's not a single Englishman has ever scored more goals in the Champions League than Wayne Rooney.

Shift them goalposts again, champ.
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lowdham bluenose
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No disrespect mate but I'm not carrying this on. In another thread in the WC section Partisan has posted two newspaper links one of which is by Alan Hansen who agrees with me that Wayne Rooney is not, and has never been, world class. As I say, no disrespect but I have more time for what Alan Hansen says...which is why the Telegraph and the BBC employ him.


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franscar
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Alan 'You'll never win anything with kids' Hansen? Slagging off a Man. United player?

Colour me staggered.

The BBC also employs Robbie Savage and Mark Lawrenson, a man who appears to genuinely hate football.
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PartisanBCFC
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lowdham bluenose
Jun 23 2014, 12:24 PM
No disrespect mate but I'm not carrying this on. In another thread in the WC section Partisan has posted two newspaper links one of which is by Alan Hansen who agrees with me that Wayne Rooney is not, and has never been, world class. As I say, no disrespect but I have more time for what Alan Hansen says...which is why the Telegraph and the BBC employ him.


But Hansen still writes that Wayne is a great player .....plus the fact he's ex Liverpool, a Scotsman and he too once made an epic error at the back for Scotland (running into a fellow defender) during a World Cup Finals match

Here is what Hansen wrote

Quote:
 
Wayne Rooney is a great player,

Firstly, at 28, Wayne is no longer the player we saw 10 years ago and, secondly, the players around him in the England team are not as good as those surrounding Pirlo and Suárez, so it is more difficult for him to have the same impact.



Yet you claimed that Rooney had better England players around him than Suarez had around him in the Uruguay side

Why don't you just man up a bit and admit you were wrong and perhaps foolish for your scathing attack on Rooney and the chronic 'singling out' and scapegoating , if any player comes away from Brazil with his held up high after we play Coast Rica tomorrow it will be Rooney



KRO


Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 23 2014, 06:50 PM.
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pooley
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there is too much emphasis on rooney

ultimately, from grass roots up we do things wrong

10 year olds playing full size pitches, that encourages hoofing it rather than close control

we need to draw a line under anyone over 10, and say the 6-8 year olds now, THEY are who we need to concentrate on, and then when they are early 20s, in 14-odd years time, we might stand a chance at the world cup

get them playing smaller balls, smaller pitches with less room encouraging close control, one touch passing etc, not have 10 year olds hoofing it dwarfed on massive pitches
Edited by pooley, Jun 23 2014, 08:04 PM.
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pooley
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team announced tomorrow and no rooney in the starting line up
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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pooley
Jun 23 2014, 09:07 PM
team announced tomorrow and no rooney in the starting line up
There are 8 other players rested as well, Pooley ......they certainly haven't been dropped for performances

Hodsgon is merely doing the right thing giving games to most of the rest of the squad that have travelled to Brazil

We are only playing for pride , why not ???


:Eng04:
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