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| Wayne Rooney | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 4 2014, 09:52 PM (1,136 Views) | |
| pooley | Jun 24 2014, 08:53 AM Post #101 |
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The Icon
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Glad fosters bring given a go too, hart hasn't looked confident in the w.c He isnt the keeper he was a year or two ago. Not sure about millers inclusion - hardly and club football and never really done much for England |
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| lowdham bluenose | Jun 24 2014, 10:16 AM Post #102 |
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Joe Bradford
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Well Rooney's not playing tonight...so that's yet another top international competition that he has flopped in. I wonder if he'll make the team of the competition? He never has before. That's 3 consecutive world cups and 3 euros where he has not delivered. What a plank. Anyway let's hope that's the sign of things to come. |
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| thehod | Jun 24 2014, 10:21 AM Post #103 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Yes, England's fourth leading goal scorer and United's third leading goal scorer at the age of 28, and it's a good thing that he doesn't play. Honestly, who needs opposition players to undermine him, when his own countrymen do such a good job of it by themselves. |
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| lowdham bluenose | Jun 24 2014, 11:18 AM Post #104 |
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Joe Bradford
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Well if you think Wayne Rooney's done the business and deserves his place, game after game then fair do's to you. Personally I think England's problem throughout the years has been to always assume that the best eleven players have to be picked, rather than the best team. A cracking example for picking the best team over the best eleven players was the '66 world cup where Sir Alf picked Hurst over Greaves. He also picked the young Alan Ball over a better player as well. I just think that the Ross Barcklay will be better suited to play in the number 10 role and with Sturridge and Sterling around him. If that is the case then we don't have room for Rooney because we don't want square pegs in round holes like what happened against Italy. Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 24 2014, 11:19 AM.
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| clapton bluenose | Jun 24 2014, 11:55 AM Post #105 |
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Alex Govan
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I agree with this tbh Greece is another example of team over individuals when they won the European cup. |
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| thehod | Jun 24 2014, 12:10 PM Post #106 |
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Mikael Forssell
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The truth of the matter is that you need both. You need players who have talent and ability, but you also need them to fit into a system that works and brings the best out of them. Too often in the past, you're right, we've picked the players then tried to find a method that best accommodates them. The oft quoted example of the Gerrard / Lampard pairing being one such case. I think too often we've allowed Rooney too much free reign in dropping deep to get the ball, when his talent has been best suited to allow the ball to come to him either from the wings or through the middle. He's an eye for goal, but too often he's too far from it to be effective. Why he was taking corners against Uruguay is befuddling. In that he needs a strong captain, which, at international level, Gerrard isn't, and a strong manager to drill it into him his role. |
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| pooley | Jun 24 2014, 02:28 PM Post #107 |
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The Icon
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this is a very common thing now though which annoys me hollands best striker, van persie, takes corners neymar takes them for brazil rooney for England midfielders should be taking corners and strikers should be in the box |
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| lowdham bluenose | Jun 29 2014, 07:05 AM Post #108 |
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Joe Bradford
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Alexis Sanchez, James Rodriguez, Neymar ... I wonder if Rooney will make the Competition XI? :LMAO: :LMAO: Here's a clue, ordinary players don't make the Competition XI (which is why Rooney never has). World class my asre. |
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| PartisanBCFC | Jun 29 2014, 08:42 AM Post #109 |
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Jack Wiseman
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You really are full of poor No, Rooney won't make the Competition XI.....but neither will any other England player......Despite the early exit Rooney was one of our best performers He's expected to take over the captaincy very soon as well I see you've selected Neymar and Rodriguez as your current flavours of the month ......two players who are far younger than Rooney and playing on their very first World Cups Yet Rooney made an equally massive impact when he played in his major tournament, the Euros of 2004 Haven't been that impressed with Brazil or Neymar TBH Tim Cahill's goal v Holland is still the best of the tourno so far and he's well past it, got to admire the technique, almost 'Rooneyesque' you could say :LOL: Time you gave it a rest with your dumb one man agenda against Rooney.....it's getting boring now If any England attacking players should get stick it's Sturridge who missed not one sitter v Costa Rica but missed four ......be along time before he's ever considered world class.....and TBH it's possible he won't ever be ......Gary Lineker. Michael Owen or even Shearer or Sheringham would have buried one those sitters he was presented with **thumbup Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 29 2014, 08:49 AM.
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| .Jake | Jun 29 2014, 11:25 AM Post #110 |
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Nikola Zigic
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I think this is the key thing for me. Most of the other England players don't get stick when they mess up time and time again but because Rooney is very much in the spotlight (because he's our best technical player), he misses one pass and already has a hate mob waiting for him. If anybody's on Twitter, I think this account sums it up perfectly. https://twitter.com/RooneysFault I think if he maintained the pace and energy he had in 2004 he'd be one of the best in the world right now, but unfortunately he's seemed to age and slow down quicker than anybody else and lost an excellent attribute over time. That accompanied with playing behind the striker for the majority of the time with his club, in my opinion has been his downfall for England as it doesn't really let either him or the team play in a way we'd like. Also Lowdham, I wonder if Xavi, Iniesta, Silva etc. will make the Competition XI? All world class players alongside other world class players in each position and they don't make it out of the groups. Rooney is having to try and carry a team out of the groups which isn't exactly an easy task when you come up against well organised sides like all 3 other teams in our group. |
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| lowdham bluenose | Jun 30 2014, 06:42 AM Post #111 |
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Joe Bradford
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Ah Jake, Iniesta and Xavi have been in previous competition XIs ( two Euros and one World Cup) whereas Rooney has never been. That about sums it up. In fact Rooney has never made the annual world XI they announce. It's all because he has never been world class, he has never been a great. The greats perform when it matters on the world stage. As soon as England realise that the way to do well is to have the best XI team and not the eleven so-called best players. England's best XI team is what is required to progress and that's without Rooney but whilst it is not the case we will continue being serial-failures in the big competitions. The last time we had the best XI team and not the best eleven players was in 1966, oh we won the world cup then despite Ramsay NOT picking the best forward i.e. Jimmy Greaves, he stook with Geoff Hurst. |
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| .Jake | Jun 30 2014, 07:51 AM Post #112 |
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Nikola Zigic
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It all depends on what your definition of world class is. The definition for world class is "(of a person, thing, or activity) of or among the best in the world." Now, what do we describe as best in the world? Ability to change a game, technical ability, influence on the pitch etc. Maybe the whole group? It's not exactly clear. There are tonnes of players that fall into world class within that definition in my opinion that are not included in competition XI's and such . An XI is way too small a bracket to include all world class players; would you not agree that Messi, Ibrahimavic, Ronaldo, Bale, and Neymar are world class? Yet all of those wouldn't fit into a single world XI because it tends to only allow 2 strikers/4 forwards. In terms of technical and all round ability, Rooney has it in abundance but in my opinion hasn't lived up to what he was hyped to be because he's not his energy and pace early on. I think anybody would accept there's a lot of players better than him and it's debatable as to whether he's world class or not, but basing it on the fact that he's not been in a world XI is a very poor way of judging it in my opinion. Accolades like an XI also do not represent an individual because it depends on the team you're in; how they adapt to your ability or whether you adapt to them, as well as how well they achieve. With England Rooney is probably never going to get in any kind of XI because we'll probably not achieve much until he's gone. Here's a list of Rooney's individual achievements too. It's not exactly short. I'd say it takes a world class player to achieve Premier League (one of the best league's in the world) team of the year 3 times having been shoved to each and every position on the pitch as well as BPL player of the year, and the numerous PFA awards speak for itself.
The second part of your quote I totally agree with, however. Rooney is just not suited to the England team, I'd much rather a Lallana or Barkley in his place who have a bit more flair about them which is what we've needed in the last few years; somebody who can create something out of nothing by running at people. We don't do that enough as a team. Edited by .Jake, Jun 30 2014, 08:01 AM.
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| PartisanBCFC | Jun 30 2014, 07:52 AM Post #113 |
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Jack Wiseman
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Doh ! :whistle: Jimmy Greaves was injured early in the tournament And Ramsey did pick the best eleven .....the competition in the 60's even the 70's wasn't as great as it is now In '66 Brazil had lost Pele to injury as he was being hacked down by just about every European defender out there and both Italy and France were knocked out in the 1st phase, Argentina were just a team of thugs back then .....Spain and Holland didn't even qualify that year.....the closest rivals England had were a Eusebio inspired Portugal , West Germany (inspired by the great Kaiser Beckenbnauer) and the old USSR.....who all happnened to be the 3 other semi finalists along with England Smaller nations particularly from the CONCACEF countries, Asian and African nations have made vast strides......England is not the power she was once was...... The expectancy is far too great |
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