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Lee Clark
Topic Started: Jun 9 2014, 12:31 PM (2,292 Views)
bluenosekev
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Gil Merrick
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Engleman
Jun 9 2014, 04:38 PM
Your on a hiding to nothing with this thread sheff! despite the fact that the main fabric of your posts will be sound. There's many on this forum who are not interested in the conditions or constraints LC had to endure in his heart-felt service to us, and none are disposed to focus upon where a lack of the same belonged to the squad players in variable performance from one week to the next, even when the team selection was maintained after positive games. Its more about maintaining the same old rhetoric against LC when like him, they appear impotent or clueless without the necessary means or resources to act. (or post)
'Brave' indeed as boilerman said! :Eng09:
Two home wins in the league ALL season.

Rubbish football, poor signings, poor tactics, his formations were a joke at times, players played out of position, our most prolific striker (Macheda) left on the bench too often. He cant motivate, he's the manager, the buck stops with him, if he cant do the job properly then he should fekk off and let someone else have a go, I cant believe he is still here, six weeks after the Bolton game and he is STILL HERE FFS.

Am fed up watching carp football at St Andrews and it aint going to change as long as LC is here. Another season with of us being played off the park by the likes of Rotherham and the Wolves will be down to one man again.

Clark Out !
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Saint Andrew
Peter Enckelman
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zxcv
Jun 9 2014, 03:26 PM
clapton bluenose
Jun 9 2014, 02:19 PM
He did well in difficult circumstances however I am unsure how to put a measure on what he did. For example it could be argued that he done nothing that another decent manager could not do.

If he gets another season it will end in tears. That much I am certain of.
Clapton, that is the whole point none of us know how well he would have done given an even platform to compare him too. But if its his fault that our solid defence (at the time) got broken up and he had almost zero chance in December of replacing them then I would say and always will, that he should be given a fare crack of the whip,
If you think that was a solid defense you do need your head looking in to. I think you like to look at stats rather than the way they played.
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R Kid
Geoff Horsfield
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bluenosekev
Jun 9 2014, 05:55 PM
Engleman
Jun 9 2014, 04:38 PM
Your on a hiding to nothing with this thread sheff! despite the fact that the main fabric of your posts will be sound. There's many on this forum who are not interested in the conditions or constraints LC had to endure in his heart-felt service to us, and none are disposed to focus upon where a lack of the same belonged to the squad players in variable performance from one week to the next, even when the team selection was maintained after positive games. Its more about maintaining the same old rhetoric against LC when like him, they appear impotent or clueless without the necessary means or resources to act. (or post)
'Brave' indeed as boilerman said! :Eng09:
Two home wins in the league ALL season.

Rubbish football, poor signings, poor tactics, his formations were a joke at times, players played out of position, our most prolific striker (Macheda) left on the bench too often. He cant motivate, he's the manager, the buck stops with him, if he cant do the job properly then he should fekk off and let someone else have a go, I cant believe he is still here, six weeks after the Bolton game and he is STILL HERE FFS.

Am fed up watching carp football at St Andrews and it aint going to change as long as LC is here. Another season with of us being played off the park by the likes of Rotherham and the Wolves will be down to one man again.

Clark Out !
don't normally quote posts, but spot on Kev. Seriously what does anyone see in Clark?
Never mind the constraints etc as could you tell me anyone else could have been worse than him?! An absolute joke of a man and manager.
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sheffield_blue
Martin Grainger
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bluenosekev
Jun 9 2014, 05:55 PM
Engleman
Jun 9 2014, 04:38 PM
Your on a hiding to nothing with this thread sheff! despite the fact that the main fabric of your posts will be sound. There's many on this forum who are not interested in the conditions or constraints LC had to endure in his heart-felt service to us, and none are disposed to focus upon where a lack of the same belonged to the squad players in variable performance from one week to the next, even when the team selection was maintained after positive games. Its more about maintaining the same old rhetoric against LC when like him, they appear impotent or clueless without the necessary means or resources to act. (or post)
'Brave' indeed as boilerman said! :Eng09:
Two home wins in the league ALL season.

Rubbish football, poor signings, poor tactics, his formations were a joke at times, players played out of position, our most prolific striker (Macheda) left on the bench too often. He cant motivate, he's the manager, the buck stops with him, if he cant do the job properly then he should fekk off and let someone else have a go, I cant believe he is still here, six weeks after the Bolton game and he is STILL HERE FFS.

Am fed up watching carp football at St Andrews and it aint going to change as long as LC is here. Another season with of us being played off the park by the likes of Rotherham and the Wolves will be down to one man again.

Clark Out !
Players out of position - no problems with a midfielder in the defence against Bolton, oh and who popped up with the equaliser would that be another player out of position?

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
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R Kid
Geoff Horsfield
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My posts being removed again,just checking?? Speaking ones mind without swearing or libelling!
Clueless out now. Excusers of the clown, why ???
Edited by R Kid, Jun 9 2014, 08:37 PM.
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charliedontsurf
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Geoff Horsfield
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Quote:
 
Players out of position - no problems with a midfielder in the defence against Bolton, oh and who popped up with the equaliser would that be another player out of position?


Fair point, Sheff!

Genuine question, though - did these experiments work or fail more often than not? And what does that suggest about Clark's ideology/direction or lack thereof? All managers get it right sometimes and all manages make mistakes sometimes. Nobody is either completely infallible or completely without redeeming features - it's about making more good decisions than bad ones. Where do you feel Clark fits in relation to this?
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Blacksmith
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Jeff Hall
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BombasticBlueNose
Jun 9 2014, 08:35 PM
My posts being removed again,just checking?? Speaking ones mind without swearing or libelling!
Clueless out now. Excusers of the clown, why ???
I've just checked and I can't see any post of yours that has been removed.
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zxcv
Malcom Page
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Blacksmith
Jun 9 2014, 08:42 PM
BombasticBlueNose
Jun 9 2014, 08:35 PM
My posts being removed again,just checking?? Speaking ones mind without swearing or libelling!
Clueless out now. Excusers of the clown, why ???
I've just checked and I can't see any post of yours that has been removed.
Why not, Is it Okay to now call the Manager Names then.?
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sheffield_blue
Martin Grainger
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charliedontsurf
Jun 9 2014, 08:35 PM
Quote:
 
Players out of position - no problems with a midfielder in the defence against Bolton, oh and who popped up with the equaliser would that be another player out of position?


Fair point, Sheff!

Genuine question, though - did these experiments work or fail more often than not? And what does that suggest about Clark's ideology/direction or lack thereof? All managers get it right sometimes and all manages make mistakes sometimes. Nobody is either completely infallible or completely without redeeming features - it's about making more good decisions than bad ones. Where do you feel Clark fits in relation to this?
Pretty obvious to see that mostly they didn't work but as I said in the opening post I am sure that it was a case of desperation, trying to get a team on the pitch that he felt were going to fight for the cause to the detriment of whether they were in their natural position, I mean no one can deny he really had his hands tied.

It is clear to see that he has learned from last seasons experience as these recent signing seem to show, I am not claiming that he is the next Ferguson but I don't believe the constant criticism and the fact that people belittle him is what he deserves. He will come good and I hope the new owners will give him some slack, he deserves it.

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
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charliedontsurf
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Geoff Horsfield
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Quote:
 
Pretty obvious to see that mostly they didn't work but as I said in the opening post I am sure that it was a case of desperation, trying to get a team on the pitch that he felt were going to fight for the cause to the detriment of whether they were in their natural position, I mean no one can deny he really had his hands tied.

It is clear to see that he has learned from last seasons experience as these recent signing seem to show, I am not claiming that he is the next Ferguson but I don't believe the constant criticism and the fact that people belittle him is what he deserves. He will come good and I hope the new owners will give him some slack, he deserves it.


Cheers for making your argument so articulately and reasonably.

I'm afraid I have to disagree, simply because - in my eyes - he did keep making the same mistakes again and again and again: strange selections, poor tactics and so on. Mistakes that he was criticised for at his previous club, too. In my view he is simply too stubborn to change and relies too much on "passion" as a means of getting away from criticism.

Still, you make a decent case **thumbup
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zxcv
Malcom Page
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sheffield_blue
Jun 9 2014, 09:04 PM
charliedontsurf
Jun 9 2014, 08:35 PM
Quote:
 
Players out of position - no problems with a midfielder in the defence against Bolton, oh and who popped up with the equaliser would that be another player out of position?


Fair point, Sheff!

Genuine question, though - did these experiments work or fail more often than not? And what does that suggest about Clark's ideology/direction or lack thereof? All managers get it right sometimes and all manages make mistakes sometimes. Nobody is either completely infallible or completely without redeeming features - it's about making more good decisions than bad ones. Where do you feel Clark fits in relation to this?
Pretty obvious to see that mostly they didn't work but as I said in the opening post I am sure that it was a case of desperation, trying to get a team on the pitch that he felt were going to fight for the cause to the detriment of whether they were in their natural position, I mean no one can deny he really had his hands tied.

It is clear to see that he has learned from last seasons experience as these recent signing seem to show, I am not claiming that he is the next Ferguson but I don't believe the constant criticism and the fact that people belittle him is what he deserves. He will come good and I hope the new owners will give him some slack, he deserves it.

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
My issue with the anti brigade is not that I think he will come good or if he turns out to be a disaster none of us can say, Until he gets the chance he so deserves we wont know, and it would be so unjust to not give the man at least half the season with players he gets to keep for the duration.
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djmmusic
Alex Govan
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zxcv
Jun 9 2014, 09:20 PM
sheffield_blue
Jun 9 2014, 09:04 PM
charliedontsurf
Jun 9 2014, 08:35 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Pretty obvious to see that mostly they didn't work but as I said in the opening post I am sure that it was a case of desperation, trying to get a team on the pitch that he felt were going to fight for the cause to the detriment of whether they were in their natural position, I mean no one can deny he really had his hands tied.

It is clear to see that he has learned from last seasons experience as these recent signing seem to show, I am not claiming that he is the next Ferguson but I don't believe the constant criticism and the fact that people belittle him is what he deserves. He will come good and I hope the new owners will give him some slack, he deserves it.

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
My issue with the anti brigade is not that I think he will come good or if he turns out to be a disaster none of us can say, Until he gets the chance he so deserves we wont know, and it would be so unjust to not give the man at least half the season with players he gets to keep for the duration.
I think after 2 seasons, Lee Clark is perhaps reaching the end of his initial trial period. :rolleyes:
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bluenosedave
Bob Hatton
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My own personal feeling is that ANY manager who has to try and get by in the soup kitchen when the rest of his neighbours are shopping in Sainsbury's and not make it obvious deserves a crack at shopping in Sainsbury's for once..............at least if the cupboard then looks like he's still shopping in the soup kitchen no one can say he didn't get a chance!

You may not like it but at present he's the best we've got, likely to get and can afford. You only have to look at the number of players that have come through the revolving door that is the St Andrews dressing room the last 3 seasons to realise where the real problem lies, generally most successful sides are the ones with a settled squad and we can't exactly say we've had that can we.
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Engleman
Malcom Page
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State of play BNdave until we get new owners, LC's problems are our own - we all should know that!
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R Kid
Geoff Horsfield
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Just what are Cocos attributes? He can kick advertising boards,run like a fool into the crowd, and praise the fans up. All clever to pull people on his side. But just watching him on the touch line and his ridiculous interviews. He had money at Huddersfield,which he wasted.the only reason he is still here,is cause no one else would have him. A shocking manager.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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bluenosedave
Jun 13 2014, 12:17 PM
My own personal feeling is that ANY manager who has to try and get by in the soup kitchen when the rest of his neighbours are shopping in Sainsbury's and not make it obvious deserves a crack at shopping in Sainsbury's for once..............at least if the cupboard then looks like he's still shopping in the soup kitchen no one can say he didn't get a chance!

You may not like it but at present he's the best we've got, likely to get and can afford. You only have to look at the number of players that have come through the revolving door that is the St Andrews dressing room the last 3 seasons to realise where the real problem lies, generally most successful sides are the ones with a settled squad and we can't exactly say we've had that can we.
...he had a crack at shopping in Waitrose when he was Huddersfield. He failed and got sacked. When we have money again he should do somebody else's shopping in the soup kitchen and we should get a professional shopper.

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Engleman
Malcom Page
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BombasticBlueNose
Jun 13 2014, 12:29 PM
Just what are Cocos attributes? He can kick advertising boards,run like a fool into the crowd, and praise the fans up. All clever to pull people on his side. But just watching him on the touch line and his ridiculous interviews. He had money at Huddersfield,which he wasted.the only reason he is still here,is cause no one else would have him. A shocking manager.
So by your post in response to mine you're one that don't know then BBN, or anything else by its content.....?
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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BombasticBlueNose
Jun 13 2014, 12:29 PM
Just what are Cocos attributes? He can kick advertising boards,run like a fool into the crowd, and praise the fans up. All clever to pull people on his side. But just watching him on the touch line and his ridiculous interviews. He had money at Huddersfield,which he wasted.the only reason he is still here,is cause no one else would have him. A shocking manager.
Well said BBN.

However whilst we're in the position we are in then leave LC in charge...but when the new owners come in then let's get rid. He'll only screw up and waste money and waste our time.
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R Kid
Geoff Horsfield
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Eng wasn't responding to your post. What you on about?
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bluenosekev
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Gil Merrick
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BombasticBlueNose
Jun 13 2014, 01:57 PM
Eng wasn't responding to your post. What you on about?
Whats he ever on about :LMAO:
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bluenosedave
Bob Hatton
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...he had a crack at shopping in Waitrose when he was Huddersfield. He failed and got sacked. When we have money again he should do somebody else's shopping in the soup kitchen and we should get a professional shopper.

You can't compare what a person has done years ago to what they do today...........everyone learns by their own mistakes. I'm sure Steve Bruce has become a better manager after learning from some of the mistakes he made at Huddersfield (Yes, Steve Bruce was sacked by Huddersfield in his second managerial position) so failing at Huddersfield doesn't automatically label you a bad manager! Oh and guess what....the then chairman at Huddersfield, Barry Rubery, accused him of wasting Huddersfield's money too........just as you're trying to do about Lee Clark.

Clark may be the bad manager you're trying to make him out to be but until he's had a proper opportunity at Birmingham City to prove he can be a good manager at Birmingham City we'll never know will we!
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djmmusic
Alex Govan
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bluenosedave
Jun 13 2014, 11:18 PM
...he had a crack at shopping in Waitrose when he was Huddersfield. He failed and got sacked. When we have money again he should do somebody else's shopping in the soup kitchen and we should get a professional shopper.

You can't compare what a person has done years ago to what they do today...........everyone learns by their own mistakes. I'm sure Steve Bruce has become a better manager after learning from some of the mistakes he made at Huddersfield (Yes, Steve Bruce was sacked by Huddersfield in his second managerial position) so failing at Huddersfield doesn't automatically label you a bad manager! Oh and guess what....the then chairman at Huddersfield, Barry Rubery, accused him of wasting Huddersfield's money too........just as you're trying to do about Lee Clark.

Clark may be the bad manager you're trying to make him out to be but until he's had a proper opportunity at Birmingham City to prove he can be a good manager at Birmingham City we'll never know will we!
I think 2 years in charge is a long enough period to see what this manager is made of. We know only too well what his attributes are as a manager.
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Lucky
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Bob Latchford
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2 years in charge but under severe money constraints,Lets see how he does with a settled team and maybe later with some money,If he bombs then fine he would have to go.But at least give him a go
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bluenosewelsh
Geoff Horsfield
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I can't fault him for hard work and attitude. He also seems to have his ear to the ground for players coming out of contract who might do a half decent job for us.

There seems to be a number of Premiership managers who will listen to him when he has the begging bowl out for loan players.

The main problem I had with him last season was him making far too many unforced changes to the team.

However, someone on here made the point that, when you take a young Premiership player on loan; written into the agreement is a minimum number of appearances clause.

If that is true, then that might partly explain the constant lucky dip style of team selection.

It is to be hoped, that with the big lump of wage reduction ( not just Zigic, but a number of others going) he will be allowed to establish a solid "spine" to the team, of permanent players.

It all went wrong last year, IMO, when the 2 centre halves were recalled.

The defence was a total shambles after that.



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bluenosekev
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Gil Merrick
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bluenosewelsh
Jun 14 2014, 07:52 AM


The defence was a total shambles after that.



The midfield werent much better either ;)
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