Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to bcfcforum.co.uk. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Lee Clark
Topic Started: Jun 9 2014, 12:31 PM (2,291 Views)
charliedontsurf
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
I can't fault him for hard work and attitude. He also seems to have his ear to the ground for players coming out of contract who might do a half decent job for us.

There seems to be a number of Premiership managers who will listen to him when he has the begging bowl out for loan players.

The main problem I had with him last season was him making far too many unforced changes to the team.

However, someone on here made the point that, when you take a young Premiership player on loan; written into the agreement is a minimum number of appearances clause.

If that is true, then that might partly explain the constant lucky dip style of team selection.

It is to be hoped, that with the big lump of wage reduction ( not just Zigic, but a number of others going) he will be allowed to establish a solid "spine" to the team, of permanent players.

It all went wrong last year, IMO, when the 2 centre halves were recalled.

The defence was a total shambles after that.I can't fault him for hard work and attitude. He also seems to have his ear to the ground for players coming out of contract who might do a half decent job for us.


Fantastic post - some really well-made points and a lot of balance there BNW. :applause:

I agree that having players recalled will always disrupt a team and on that score of course Clark's job was made harder. The fact that he could not go out and buy replacements makes that job even more problematic. There is also no doubt that we are not even operating in the same universe financially as some of the teams floating around the higher echelons of the division. There are certainly worse managers than Clark out there, and he does seem to give a damn, which is always worth something.

At the same time, there were so many inconsistencies elsewhere that - to my mind - were hard to defend. Clark spent all pre-season preparing to employ a tactic that he abandoned within a few games. Fair enough if it was not working - but he then seemed to have no idea about a plan B. Some players only had to have a bad 45 minutes and were bombed out for months on end, whilst others (Olly Lee being a prime example) seemed to play game after game despite bringing little to the team. Watching the constant chopping and changing of players through unfamiliar positions was like watching a Dali-esque hokey cokey. Just excusing all of this with "he had constraints", as some do, is effectively giving him a pass to make mistake after mistake until relegation seizes us around the throat.

Furthermore, when we look at the players Clark DID lose in January, the only regulars were Burn, Lingaard and, arguably, Bartley (who was only just being given a proper run in the team.) It was not an entire team he had to rebuild, and many managers lose their better players in January. Indeed, everyone outside a privileged few is ultimately a selling club. Sean Dyche lost his top scorer to a promotion rival just before the season started, has spent less than Clark did last season on Ambrose and co, and still achieved promotion. That was after he did a very good job at Watford, who at the time were a financial car crash (pre Italian money.)

Now of course Sean Dyche's do not come around every day, but the point is that he is a manager with a distinct notion of what he wants to achieve and how. People have defended Clark's decisions as a sign of desperation, and I agree, but see this as a negative. In my eyes, such desperation was a sign of headless-chicken management: not knowing what to do so trying whatever he could. I would like to see a manager in place who does know what he wants, who has a plan/system and will work to it. A desperate manager of a football team is no more efficient than a desperate Prime Minister or desperate doctor.

Until we get new owners there will always be the argument that Clark has not had the funds, and that is something that cannot ever be fully countered. Nobody knows what he could and would have achieved with money. Those who have defended him on this score may well be very, very right and I may be very, very wrong. The only evidence I can offer on the contrary is this:

* Clark inherited a team that had finished fourth, that contained Burke (voted best RW in the division the season before), Curtis Davies, Zigic, King, Redmond, Ravel Morrison (seriously underused) David Murphy and other players who were more than capable of a top half - even play-off - finish. He then added players of real pedigree in Lovenkrands, Ambrose and Mullins. He did not have a "ripped-up" squad then: only Mutch and Myhill had gone. And yet for much of the season we were a shocking, spluttering mess - only stuttering into lie towards the end where a brief flurry saw us scrape 12th. To whit: even with a settled squad he underperformed.

* At Huddersfield he had lots of money. Yes, he went undefeated for a long time - which is a very laudable achievement. It looks a little less laudable however when you consider how much more money he had to spend compared to clubs who have lingered in those lower reaches since the dawn of the dinosaur, how he had players the calibre of Rhodes up front, and still failed to achieve promotion. In the past Clark has shopped at Harrords, and has been beaten by those who frequent Iceland.

I bear no ill-will towards the man. it is not a question of being a "hater" or whatever terms people want to bandy about. I have simply looked at the evidence in front of me and decided that he is not the best person to be in charge of the club I support. Those who studied the evidence have come to opposite views, fair dos. **thumbup As Parti has been saying for a while, I have the distinct impression it will be academic if/when we get new owners as they will want a clean slate anyway.



Edited by charliedontsurf, Jun 14 2014, 12:19 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
boilerman
Member Avatar
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Good post Charlie, You know my feelings, but I can't argue with that. **thumbup
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheffield_blue
Martin Grainger
[ *  *  * ]
Good post charlie, it is difficult to defend Lee sometimes, I see it that there are better managers than him around but there are a lot worse, he was dealt a very bad hand last season which no one can deny. The key to him succeeding is getting his coaching staff right as I believe he has all the attributes to do well in the game, I emphasise he is still learning and he will come good at some point. Not sure what happened at Huddersfield is that relevant as we don't know all the circumstances but to say he was shopping at waitrose is a little over stating it Mourinho, Wenga, Rodgers go there.

Although he cannot manage on pure passion alone it is pleasing to see how much he really care's I believe he is a genuine person, his work ethic is also not in doubt, I also think his standing in the game is good hence the ability to get loans from the bigger clubs.

last season was a nightmare for many reasons, a lesser manager than Lee and we would definitely gone down. I would be disappointed if new owners sacked him on the spot I really do think he deserves at least half a season and if he doesn't come up with the goods I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
Edited by sheffield_blue, Jun 15 2014, 11:22 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
sheffield_blue
Jun 15 2014, 11:20 AM
I would be disappointed if new owners sacked him on the spot I really do think he deserves at least half a season and if he doesn't come up with the goods I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

...but that would mean in essence a wasted season and probably some wasted money.

No, I don't want there to be any room for sentiment just because he comes into work at 7.30 every morning, because he kicks an advertising boarding and because he runs to the Blues fans at the end of a match. Most people on this forum could do all those things. We need a new manager when the new owners come so we can look forward to the future again.

No time for sentiment, I just want to see us progress.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pooley
The Icon
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
new owners come in we need a shake up from top to bottom. I recommend the following:

Parti

Bucket man with the magic sponge

Lowds

Accounts and finances

Simon

Lowds' assistant (he is like his forum son anyway)

Me

Manager and all round cool guy

Engleman

Anger management and behavioural observations to ensure we get as many red cards as possible

Aussie/Canadian

Australian and Canadian scouts respectively

Kev

Head of refreshment

Lewis

The member of the back room staff who no one knows what he actually does

Blacksmith and Mo

The level heads to keep everyone else in check

Des

historian and trophy room curator

B25

Club / trust liaison officer

Kyle

Public relations

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheffield_blue
Martin Grainger
[ *  *  * ]
lowdham bluenose
Jun 15 2014, 11:35 AM
sheffield_blue
Jun 15 2014, 11:20 AM
I would be disappointed if new owners sacked him on the spot I really do think he deserves at least half a season and if he doesn't come up with the goods I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

...but that would mean in essence a wasted season and probably some wasted money.

No, I don't want there to be any room for sentiment just because he comes into work at 7.30 every morning, because he kicks an advertising boarding and because he runs to the Blues fans at the end of a match. Most people on this forum could do all those things. We need a new manager when the new owners come so we can look forward to the future again.

No time for sentiment, I just want to see us progress.

Absolutely nothing to do with sentiment, I believe he has the ability and will come good.

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
boilerman
Member Avatar
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
lowdham bluenose
Jun 15 2014, 11:35 AM
sheffield_blue
Jun 15 2014, 11:20 AM
I would be disappointed if new owners sacked him on the spot I really do think he deserves at least half a season and if he doesn't come up with the goods I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

...but that would mean in essence a wasted season and probably some wasted money.

No, I don't want there to be any room for sentiment just because he comes into work at 7.30 every morning, because he kicks an advertising boarding and because he runs to the Blues fans at the end of a match. Most people on this forum could do all those things. We need a new manager when the new owners come so we can look forward to the future again.

No time for sentiment, I just want to see us progress.

I don't have time for the hard hearted approach lowds, sentiment is more important than you think, it creates a passion were some folk will run through walls for you. Its about how hard someone tries, the effort that they put in, and that, as we know, can and should be infectious. A point that has been missed by some of the players. I'm pretty sure if he had the right players around him, he could produce the goods. He's getting some of those in now I think. Another chance? definitely, I mean, they're queuing up to take his job, all these better managers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
pooley
Jun 15 2014, 11:51 AM
new owners come in we need a shake up from top to bottom. I recommend the following:

Parti

Bucket man with the magic sponge

Lowds

Accounts and finances

Simon

Lowds' assistant (he is like his forum son anyway)

Me

Manager and all round cool guy

Engleman

Anger management and behavioural observations to ensure we get as many red cards as possible

Aussie/Canadian

Australian and Canadian scouts respectively

Kev

Head of refreshment

Lewis

The member of the back room staff who no one knows what he actually does

Blacksmith and Mo

The level heads to keep everyone else in check

Des

historian and trophy room curator

B25

Club / trust liaison officer

Kyle

Public relations

may I add

zxcv

Irritating man with the microphone on the pitch
Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 15 2014, 12:56 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
djmmusic
Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
boilerman
Jun 15 2014, 12:13 PM
lowdham bluenose
Jun 15 2014, 11:35 AM
sheffield_blue
Jun 15 2014, 11:20 AM
I would be disappointed if new owners sacked him on the spot I really do think he deserves at least half a season and if he doesn't come up with the goods I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

...but that would mean in essence a wasted season and probably some wasted money.

No, I don't want there to be any room for sentiment just because he comes into work at 7.30 every morning, because he kicks an advertising boarding and because he runs to the Blues fans at the end of a match. Most people on this forum could do all those things. We need a new manager when the new owners come so we can look forward to the future again.

No time for sentiment, I just want to see us progress.

I don't have time for the hard hearted approach lowds, sentiment is more important than you think, it creates a passion were some folk will run through walls for you. Its about how hard someone tries, the effort that they put in, and that, as we know, can and should be infectious. A point that has been missed by some of the players. I'm pretty sure if he had the right players around him, he could produce the goods. He's getting some of those in now I think. Another chance? definitely, I mean, they're queuing up to take his job, all these better managers.
You have just listed the very attributes LC appears to lack.
I would have welcomed a leader of men who would make ordinary players feel extraordinary. Someone who does his homework on the forthcoming team, and is able to adopt tactics that counter the opposing team, whilst playing to his own players strengths.

Giving Lee Clark another chance is like giving the woman who cheated on you twice before another chance - 'this time it will be different'. It never is - a leopard never changes its spots.

One of the signs of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results each time. Lee has had a good go - 92 league games in charge is more than enough of a trial period.

At the earliest opportunity, the club needs to (and will) dispense with Lee Clark and bring in a fresh approach.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
charliedontsurf
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
new owners come in we need a shake up from top to bottom. I recommend the following:

Parti

Bucket man with the magic sponge

Lowds

Accounts and finances

Simon

Lowds' assistant (he is like his forum son anyway)

Me

Manager and all round cool guy

Engleman

Anger management and behavioural observations to ensure we get as many red cards as possible

Aussie/Canadian

Australian and Canadian scouts respectively

Kev

Head of refreshment

Lewis

The member of the back room staff who no one knows what he actually does

Blacksmith and Mo

The level heads to keep everyone else in check

Des

historian and trophy room curator

B25

Club / trust liaison officer

Kyle

Public relations


I'll job share with Kev and also operate the music/tannoy system. We'll come out every game to a mixture of Dead Kennedy's, Holy Bible-era Manics and Bauhaus and scare the rubbish out of the opposition.

There'll be no Ataris or Blink 182 though.
Edited by charliedontsurf, Jun 15 2014, 01:04 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mikem56
Martin Taylor
[ *  * ]
bluenosekev
Jun 9 2014, 03:22 PM
zxcv
Jun 9 2014, 03:16 PM
If you put your Brain into gear you will realise that the recalled player`s were in December which leaves 3/4 of the time the disastrous home run took place, so its not to hard to work out the reason why now is it.?
We were carp all season at home in the League with the exception of the two wins that is.

We were no better when Bartley & Burn were here.

We played the poorest football I have ever seen at St Andrews no matter what part of the season.

Some news later I hear and am hoping Lee Clark has been put on his bike.

By the way as a poster ITK you wouldnt happen to know what the news is later would you ? :LMAO:
Carp all season? That's it - like fish out of water, we were.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
charliedontsurf
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
I don't have time for the hard hearted approach lowds, sentiment is more important than you think, it creates a passion were some folk will run through walls for you. Its about how hard someone tries, the effort that they put in, and that, as we know, can and should be infectious. A point that has been missed by some of the players. I'm pretty sure if he had the right players around him, he could produce the goods. He's getting some of those in now I think. Another chance? definitely, I mean, they're queuing up to take his job, all these better managers.


Well said, you raise one of the key points there - at the moment who would want the job? Anybody we get in would be a risk: they could be a Dyche or they could be a Bary Ferguson. Furthermore, whatever you think of Clark he has certainly been proactive in getting in new players, some of whom have turned down other clubs to join us - and Clark must be part of that reason. Sentiment can also play a part in holding a team together: arguably the likes of Devlin were not Premier quality, but in that first Prem season it was Bruce's trust in such players that carried us through the first half of the season. I'm all for sentiment; it's the reason we keep putting up with ups and downs of being a Blue fan.

I think Lowds reasoning, though, is based around a scenario where someone arrives with new money, and ergo we become a more attractive proposition. Big name managers do not always equal success, and I would hate a Sven/Di Cannio/Keane/whoever appointment who was in the role simply because of their status. If it was a genuinely promising manager, though, my view would be different.

I look at it this way: if given lots of new money, Clark would have to be ruthless in shipping out players, some of whom may try their heart out but would not be good enough for Lee's new team. If someone offered him the choice right now of having Macheda, Charlie Austin and Ross McCormack in his squad, would he really keep or play Novak? Similarly, if we became attractive to a better quality of manager I would rather have that manager in charge. I know that sounds really brutal, but we've been on the receiving end ourselves, with Hughton, Bruce, Savage and others walking away in the past. Football, unfortunately, can be brutal.

Edited by charliedontsurf, Jun 15 2014, 01:24 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheffield_blue
Martin Grainger
[ *  *  * ]
charliedontsurf
Jun 15 2014, 01:22 PM


I look at it this way: if given lots of new money, Clark would have to be ruthless in shipping out players, some of whom may try their heart out but would not be good enough for Lee's new team. If someone offered him the choice right now of having Macheda, Charlie Austin and Ross McCormack in his squad, would he really keep or play Novak? Similarly, if we became attractive to a better quality of manager I would rather have that manager in charge. I know that sounds really brutal, but we've been on the receiving end ourselves, with Hughton, Bruce, Savage and others walking away in the past. Football, unfortunately, can be brutal.

I think all these new signing are sending a direct message to the existing squad, perform or else.

KRO

Come on England

Sheffield Blue
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Engleman
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Clayton Donaldson signs! Well Done LC!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zxcv
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Engleman
Jun 19 2014, 10:26 PM
Clayton Donaldson signs! Well Done LC!
Hasn`t signed yet ,he has a medical Tuesday.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Engleman
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
zxcv
Jun 19 2014, 10:39 PM
Engleman
Jun 19 2014, 10:26 PM
Clayton Donaldson signs! Well Done LC!
Hasn`t signed yet ,he has a medical Tuesday.

"seventh summer signing"
:Hello: Wednesday 18 Jun 2014! **thumbup
Edited by Engleman, Jun 20 2014, 09:21 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Blacksmith
Member Avatar
Jeff Hall
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
That link is about a Mark Duffy, not Donaldson.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Engleman
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Blacksmith
Jun 20 2014, 09:14 AM
That link is about a Mark Duffy, not Donaldson.
Shaaammmee... :whistle:
....things are moving too fast and I'm getting too excited :D
Edited by Engleman, Jun 20 2014, 09:22 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Engleman
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
LC now looking to take young Manchester United keeper Sam Johnstone on development loan as a backup for Darren Randolph.
Rumour Mill
Edited by Engleman, Jun 20 2014, 09:50 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pork Pie Blue
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Engleman
Jun 20 2014, 09:47 AM
LC now looking to take young Manchester United keeper Sam Johnstone on development loan as a backup for Darren Randolph.
Rumour Mill
A Sky Sports rumour :D Surely Nick Townsend is ready to step up a level.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zxcv
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Blacksmith
Jun 20 2014, 09:14 AM
That link is about a Mark Duffy, not Donaldson.
Can you get him on your Hand vile (blacksmith :blink: ) and hit him on his Helmet. (on his head of course).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Engleman
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
zxcv
Jun 20 2014, 11:08 AM
Blacksmith
Jun 20 2014, 09:14 AM
That link is about a Mark Duffy, not Donaldson.
Can you get him on your Hand vile (blacksmith :blink: ) and hit him on his Helmet. (on his head of course).
Hand vile :ph43r: You'd better explain what you mean by this zxcv........? :unsure:
Edited by Engleman, Jun 20 2014, 12:06 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
zxcv
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Engleman
Jun 20 2014, 12:00 PM
zxcv
Jun 20 2014, 11:08 AM
Blacksmith
Jun 20 2014, 09:14 AM
That link is about a Mark Duffy, not Donaldson.
Can you get him on your Hand vile (blacksmith :blink: ) and hit him on his Helmet. (on his head of course).
Hand vile :ph43r: You'd better explain what you mean by this zxcv........? :unsure:
Its what a Blacksmith uses with a largish hammer to shape his metal work. Like your Helmet. What do you think I meant? :o
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Engleman
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Didn't have a clue what you were on about! :blink:

If you meant Anvil you should have said Anvil!

Blacksmith hasn't got a hammer big enough to shape my head (you should have said)

And don't talk about my Helmets on this forum Marra! :o :LMAO:
Edited by Engleman, Jun 20 2014, 06:54 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bluenoseboris
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
lowdham bluenose
Jun 15 2014, 12:29 PM
pooley
Jun 15 2014, 11:51 AM
new owners come in we need a shake up from top to bottom. I recommend the following:

Parti

Bucket man with the magic sponge

Lowds

Accounts and finances

Simon

Lowds' assistant (he is like his forum son anyway)

Me

Manager and all round cool guy

Engleman

Anger management and behavioural observations to ensure we get as many red cards as possible

Aussie/Canadian

Australian and Canadian scouts respectively

Kev

Head of refreshment

Lewis

The member of the back room staff who no one knows what he actually does

Blacksmith and Mo

The level heads to keep everyone else in check

Des

historian and trophy room curator

B25

Club / trust liaison officer

Kyle

Public relations

may I add

zxcv

Irritating man with the microphone on the pitch
:LOL:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Blues Chat · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Forum Design by Hirsty.