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No Player Is Bigger Than Bcfc; Sour Grapes if you ask me....please read
Topic Started: May 12 2006, 05:44 AM (271 Views)
PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
OK.....I am an active 'Bruce Out' Lobbyist and some of Kenny Cunningham's comments make sense but let's all take a deep breath,people

NO player will ever be bigger than Birmingham City FC....we should take note of Sir Alex at Man Yoo who handled the Roy Keane situation with perfect skill and perception.......he simply got rid of him .......same happened to David Beckham ...........same will happen to Ruud Van Nistelrooy .......same could happen to Rooney if he ever got bigger than his boots (and I don't mean the surgical ski boot).....the MESSAGE here is that Manchester United FC are arguably the BIGGEST club side on the planet.......they've been around for more than 100 years and will be around for another 200..........Players COME and GO......as indeed do directors,managers,coaches and even the laundry staff and the folks who sweep the stands after match days

We should be thinking along these lines

I respected Kenny Cunningham and would like to thank the Irish captain for his marvellous 4 years service to this club........but how do we know some of his comments are not just SOUR GRAPES.......Right up to and after the Bolton game he was in discussion with the club over a new contract......Kenny must have knew deep down he had lost the pace of the Premiership and thought a season in the Championship was the perfect 'tone down' before retirement.....but what happened ??? ........he was axed

KC,despite having one of the best football brains around, got himself sent off for a stupid tackle at Arsenal after only 23 minutes.......another game we lost 1-0.....he was NEVER ever seen as a vocal captain............and let's be honest publicly slagging off the people who have rewarded you with handsome salaries over the years is clearly the act of someone who is very much disgruntled..........I know I'd be disgruntled if I'd lost a job I enjoyed doing

KC is actually making himself look a little foolish just as 'Judas' Savage did before him.............How Come Jermaine Pennant is not slagging the board off then ???....this kid is truly one of our 'Prize Assets' and Jermaine WANTS TO STAY even in the Coke Division

Kenny.....you might LOVE the fans (talk about covering all bases) but I totally RESENT you calling our great club 'soul less' or like a 'corpse' ...........talk about "" Biting the Hand that Feeds You"".......you're 'avin a larf..........and a centre back donkey named Vince Overson said the same thing back in 1991 when we couldn't even get out of the old Third Division......he called us comatose back then (ironically right before he left along with Macari) but where is Vince today ??? ........I hear people saying Vince WHO ???.......I rest my case

Look at that support at Bolton (and the numerous home games with The Tamperer and Keep Right On in full swing)........even the Bolton fans applauded us....how can the club have NO HEART OR SOUL............Give me a break

Trevor Francis ,Kenny Burns,Joe Bradford,Frankie Worthington or Gil Merrick were NEVER bigger than BCFC........but they went down in folklore as Blues LEGENDS......Simply because,UNLIKE some of your team mates Mr Cunningham....these guys gave their HEARTS to Birmingham City and the fans worshipped them

Birmingham City FC will be around LONG after you've gone Kenny, old pal........you were right about Bruce,the man should resign but NEVER call MY club HEARTLESS.............Good luck at Tranmere,Carlisle,Shamrock Rovers or wherever you end up


Keep right on
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Mr. Blue
Geoff Horsfield
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Fair play Partisan,

Ive got to agree with everything you said there, I just think that KC ment that the training ground was 'souless' and everything else apart from match days.



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Lucky
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Bob Latchford
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i think you have to read the comments a few times to grasp what he means,
by the soul of the club ,i never thought for a minute he meant the fan base,
but i do understand all the things he had said,and if you think back to older posts you will see it has all be talked about on here,
i have met Kenny a few times and he always struck me as a very knowledgeable guy who speaks very honestly,i agree with all he said and it needed to be said ,i would much prefer that straight talking than David Golds waffling,in the end all these comments will give blues as a club a big shake up ,its been going no where for 2 years so maybe now we can get back on track.
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Willie
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Willie
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Your right no player is bigger than a club, but ask yourself why has, KC done this.

Why has someone who's past history shows that he stays well clear of the press. decided to speak out?

Its been said he is just being bitter as he did not get a new contract, well we are all aware that is was rumoured KC wanted to retire last season but was persuaded to stay on for another season.

A lot of what he has said, is what a lot of people on here and other boards have been saying for 2 yrs now.

Personally his comments are spot on he's right souless and heartless sums it up. I would have aded inept, lacking desire, clueless,tactically naive, boring,predictable, and so much more..

Well said Kenny, who knows you may just have given BCFC board and manager the wake up call they obviously need......
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honkybluenose
Peter Enckelman
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tuggy
May 12 2006, 06:10 AM
i think you have to read the comments a few times to grasp what he means,
by the soul of the club ,i never thought for a minute he meant the fan base,
but i do understand all the things he had said,and if you think back to older posts you will see it has all be talked about on here,
i have met Kenny a few times and he always struck me as a very knowledgeable guy who speaks very honestly,i agree with all he said and it needed to be said ,i would much prefer that straight talking than David Golds waffling,in the end all these comments will give blues as a club a big shake up ,its been going no where for 2 years so maybe now we can get back on track.

While you may agree with part or all of what KC says, its what he does not say that looses it some credibility.

If only he had said that the players take some responsibility too for relegation it would have been so much more balanced.

I believe nearly all of us (pro and anti Bruce alike) agree Bruce has some responsibility.

I beleive that most of us think the board has some responsibility.

I think the players have some responsibility too and know many agree with me.

You can argue about the split, whether one party takes more or less, but to imply that the players have no responsibility is in itself without credibility.

It is about time that everyone associated with BCFC behaved like men, put their hands up and said "I am partly or largely responsible for what happened, I made these mistakes and this is what I plan to do about them"

I think they may find that whoever they are and however much they are blamed, acting in such a manner may win them some respect. KC included.
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baron von bluenose
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Bob Latchford
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wiyh no money to spend and doom and gloom on the horizon,and the board were told 7 months ago that relegation was on the cars unless funds were forth comming.
i bet it was like a crypt down there,if the players were more committed and less revolutionairy we may have survived,im not just saying this i do have inside info and sb although takes the blame he's only partly responsible.
the whole truth is yet to emerge but i dont think bruce will talk,thats not his style,and nor should the rest
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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Willie
May 12 2006, 06:19 AM
Your right no player is bigger than a club, but ask yourself why has, KC done this.

Why has someone who's past history shows that he stays well clear of the press. decided to speak out?

Its been said he is just being bitter as he did not get a new contract, well we are all aware that is was rumoured KC wanted to retire last season but was persuaded to stay on for another season.

A lot of what he has said, is what a lot of people on here and other boards have been saying for 2 yrs now.

Personally his comments are spot on he's right souless and heartless sums it up. I would have aded inept, lacking desire, clueless,tactically naive, boring,predictable, and so much more..

Well said Kenny, who knows you may just have given BCFC board and manager the wake up call they obviously need......

This my take on it as well! spot on Willie!
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LJL17
Paul Devlin
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Partisan, at no point has Kenny said that this club's supporters are soulless or like a stiff corpse. He has said that, in his opinion, the top-level structure of BCFC (like most PLCs one would suggest), in comparison to his previous experience, is soulless and like a stiff corpse. He wanted more energy, more intervention, more "hands-on" management, more of the Bulldog spirit from the owners.

He is no Savage, no "Judas" and to imply that based on your misinterpretation of his comments, is way off the mark.

With respect, I suggest you read what he says again.

That is my opinion.
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ATL-Blue
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Frank Worthington
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Willie
May 12 2006, 06:19 AM
Your right no player is bigger than a club, but ask yourself why has, KC done this.

Why has someone who's past history shows that he stays well clear of the press. decided to speak out?

Its been said he is just being bitter as he did not get a new contract, well we are all aware that is was rumoured KC wanted to retire last season but was persuaded to stay on for another season.

A lot of what he has said, is what a lot of people on here and other boards have been saying for 2 yrs now.

Personally his comments are spot on he's right souless and heartless sums it up. I would have aded inept, lacking desire, clueless,tactically naive, boring,predictable, and so much more..

Well said Kenny, who knows you may just have given BCFC board and manager the wake up call they obviously need......

Exactly

+ his comments show a deep regard for the fans (the club itself really) in my own opinion, so i don't think he feels bigger than the club i think he feels those running the club are letting the club itself (us) down. Its not like his criticisms are without truth.
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Joe
Geoff Horsfield
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Mr. Blue
May 12 2006, 06:09 AM
Fair play Partisan,

Ive got to agree with everything you said there, I just think that KC ment that the training ground was 'souless' and everything else apart from match days.

No, he meant the club was soul less, because of an attitude from the boardroom that is concerned more with money than building a club, in the truest sense of the word, where everyone is pulling the same way.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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LJL17
May 12 2006, 06:51 AM
Partisan, at no point has Kenny said that this club's supporters are soulless or like a stiff corpse. He has said that, in his opinion, the top-level structure of BCFC (like most PLCs one would suggest), in comparison to his previous experience, is soulless and like a stiff corpse. He wanted more energy, more intervention, more "hands-on" management, more of the Bulldog spirit from the owners.

He is no Savage, no "Judas" and to imply that based on your misinterpretation of his comments, is way off the mark.

With respect, I suggest you read what he says again.

That is my opinion.

Yes,it's EASY to say "Oh I Love the supporters" and "They deserve better" but that is EXACTLY what Robbie Savage said too

Look,Kenny is spot on with some of the things he said but can't some of you see the guy is totally p*****d off NOT getting another contract.....this is my whole point

And I am totally behind David Sullivan ......he and the Golds have invested heavily in the club and Karren Brady has done a great job as MD
And the business side of the club should be left to them .........WTF does Kenny Cunningham know about running a high profile business with a 32 million pound turnover,transfer budgets,staffing levels,expansion,match day logistics,accounts and the plans and ambitions for BCFC ??? .....Sullivan was absolutely RIGHT

I just wish they would see the 'light' and get rid of Steve Bruce even if they have to pay him the compensation he's clearly hangin' around for

Crikey....imagine if we had a 'DINOSAUR' like Doug Ellis running our football club.........some of you don't know when you are well off.......I am a supporter and I don't think the club are 'SOUL LESS' at all...........Give me a break....FCS
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Bluediver
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Alex Govan
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ATL-Blue
May 12 2006, 06:57 AM
Willie
May 12 2006, 06:19 AM
Your right no player is bigger than a club, but ask yourself why has, KC done this.

Why has someone who's past history shows that he stays well clear of the press. decided to speak out?

Its been said he is just being bitter as he did not get a new contract, well we are all aware that is was rumoured KC wanted to retire last season but was persuaded to stay on for another season.

A lot of what he has said, is what a lot of people on here and other boards have been saying for 2 yrs now.

Personally his comments are spot on he's right souless and heartless sums it up. I would have aded inept, lacking desire, clueless,tactically naive, boring,predictable, and so much more..

Well said Kenny, who knows you may just have given BCFC board and manager the wake up call they obviously need......

Exactly

+ his comments show a deep regard for the fans (the club itself really) in my own opinion, so i don't think he feels bigger than the club i think he feels those running the club are letting the club itself (us) down. Its not like his criticisms are without truth.

Spot on. And to be honest, I have been concerned about the club for some time now. No, I'm not talking about results or performances - they speak for themselves. I have believed that the fans of this club, who are the heart, are now regarded as nuisances, only tolerated because they provide income.

I'm fairly certain that if Messers Gold and Sullivan could run the club profitably without the inconvenience of fans, they would do so! How many times have we been reminded of how grateful we should be for their rescue of the club? How many times have we been told to stop moaning?

Meanwhile the club has slipped from the Premiership, and few independant observers will lose any sleep about that. We have few friends outside of our own club. Fairly obviously teams like Palace and Blackburn dislike us. But who out there really cares a damn about us? There was a wealth of good will towards Pompey in their Premiership survival campaign. How much good will was there towards us?

Traditionally, we are a working-mans football club, with fans who are passionate despite the lack of on-field success. We are now regarded by some as a bit of a joke. Dodgy businessmen made good who are treating the club like a business project.

Achievement is secondary to profit. And if the fans demand something to show for parting with their hard earned cash, they are moaners who shuld be grateful that the club even exists. The proof of that was the scandalous decision to charge Premiership prices for Championship football.

Kenny C knows what is happening at the heart of this club. We would be wise to listen to him.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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Oh and LJL17....I NEVER ever said KC was a Judas..........read what I actually wrote and pay attention

Savage made a big 'hoohah' when he left and tried to get supporters on his side....he FAILED

As I said.....hopefully Birmingham City FC will be making the right news ON the field in coming years

And Kenny Cunningham will be just another 'former' player

You are totally misinterpreting my message
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charliedontsurf
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Geoff Horsfield
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I do not think KC was saying the fans were souless, far from it.

However,as I have said on a nother thread, I also believe the board should not cop it 'too' much. They should have gotten rid of Bruce, and did not act decisively.

However, I think some people go 'way' over the top. I honestely think we have one of the best boards going. They may not have put in as much as some would have liked, but they have still put in more than enough. I am not talking about 12 years ago, I am talking about most of our time in the Prem.

I am sure there are managers around who would have liked to have been given over 15m on strikers in the last four seasons. It is not their fault that money was spent on crocks, donkeys or players who were simpluy 'too good'/'inappropriate' for our style of hoofball. They DO also pay big wages, a fact that - for better or worse - attracted the likes of Izzet, Sutton, Butt, mario etc.

Furthermore, I would argue that Sully and Gold could hardly be described as characterless/soulless. There was a tangible sense of 'vacancy' and soulessness in the air at many games this season, but I believe SO MUCH of it was down to the fact that tens of thousands would turn up, see Tebs in midfield and Heskey up front alone and be resigned to another painful 90mins. IN fact, even before turning up, there was that feeling - in the pubs you could have discussions about ideal line ups, but you always knew that, ultimately, SB would not change his spots and the team would be tripe. And so it proved.
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hughesie
Ian Bennett
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no player is bigger than the club, and NO MANAGER bigger than the club

but at the moment bruce is using our club to prove a point to himself and the media instead of putting his hands and admitting his mistakes
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ATL-Blue
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Frank Worthington
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hughesie
May 12 2006, 07:34 AM
no player is bigger than the club, and NO MANAGER bigger than the club

but at the moment bruce is using our club to prove a point to himself and the media instead of putting his hands and admitting his mistakes

Excellent point to be fair
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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charliedontsurf
May 12 2006, 07:25 AM
I do not think KC was saying the fans were souless, far from it.

However,as I have said on a nother thread, I also believe the board should not cop it 'too' much. They should have gotten rid of Bruce, and did not act decisively.

However, I think some people go 'way' over the top. I honestely think we have one of the best boards going. They may not have put in as much as some would have liked, but they have still put in more than enough. I am not talking about 12 years ago, I am talking about most of our time in the Prem.

I am sure there are managers around who would have liked to have been given over 15m on strikers in the last four seasons. It is not their fault that money was spent on crocks, donkeys or players who were simpluy 'too good'/'inappropriate' for our style of hoofball. They DO also pay big wages, a fact that - for better or worse - attracted the likes of Izzet, Sutton, Butt, mario etc.

Furthermore, I would argue that Sully and Gold could hardly be described as characterless/soulless. There was a tangible sense of 'vacancy' and soulessness in the air at many games this season, but I believe SO MUCH of it was down to the fact that tens of thousands would turn up, see Tebs in midfield and Heskey up front alone and be resigned to another painful 90mins. IN fact, even before turning up, there was that feeling - in the pubs you could have discussions about ideal line ups, but you always knew that, ultimately, SB would not change his spots and the team would be tripe. And so it proved.

Good point and I NEVER even said that Kenny made the assumption that supporters were 'soul less'........I wished people would pay attention

But he was getting at the fact that the training ground and even the Board room were 'soul less'.........how the hell would a player (even the captain) know what goes on in the boardroom

I just don't buy into all this Doom and Gloom.....Blues have been in worse states than this in the past ,in fact as recently as 1994 and that was when we dropped into what is now League One

At the end of the day Steve Bruce created this side,moulded it,played players out of position,deployed useless tactics and is TOO stubborn to even listen to Black who suggested other fitness routines according to what KC writes about

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the Board are reluctant to hand over big wads of cash for new players to Bruce ....and who can blame them ?? .....that would be my ONLY criticism of our board,they should bring in a PROVEN man.........Curbs,Allardyce,O Neill,Keegan,Atkinson etc

I have played football and it is ALL about winning,BELIEF and having HEART.........the directors have NAFF ALL to do with it

Steve Bruce should be FIRED .......that would cure the 'rot'
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LJL17
Paul Devlin
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Fair enough Partisan, I have no agenda to fall out with you or any other Blues fan. I'll put it more simply. I do not believe Kenny has any "sour grapes" at all and, now he is clear to say what he feels without the potential sanction of gross misconduct and undermining his employers, he has lifted the lid on a number of issues that go a long way to confirming what most of us thought. Savage could never be taken seriously by anyone, including us when he was here. Kenny is a professional, astute and quiet man who people DO take seriously and his comments have significant credibility in the main.

The only aspect of what he says that I have difficulty with, is that the (majority shareholding) owners of this club are in some way lacking in interest or with heart. I have had the privilage to converse with Sullivan on a few issues and he is, privately, very passionate about non-financial aspects of BCFC, especially the atmosphere on matchdays and such like . However as businessmen and whilst this club remains a PLC, it is unlikely that there is ever going to be the kind of 'atmosphere' within the club that he experienced under Hamman at the Dons and Kenny should understand that.

It's best we all Keep Right On and hope for something good to occur from the wreckage of this totally gut-wrenching last 12 months.
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nick_p
Kenny Burns
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You may well question KC's motives, but it's not just sour grapes. The fact is, he is telling it exactly as we have seen it.

Yes, he's standing up for the players more than perhaps he should be, but consider this: he talks about Bruce preferring to protect his reputation with his employers than standing up for his players. In the absence of such a figure, Kenny Cunningham, former captain of Birmingham City FC, is stepping up to the plate and doing the job his manager has singularly failed to do.

Like it or not, but footballers are rarely altruistic people. Their egos must be massive to cope with all the fame and attention they get. This is true of all Premiership clubs, not just Blues. We pay these players thousands of pounds a week in return for their talents, but anyone who thinks a player can motivate himself week in, week out is sadly deluded. Rightly or wrongly, they need motivating on the field and off the field. That is why we employ a manager to manage them.

The manager has shown increasingly that he cannot motivate, cannot prepare and cannot look after his players, which is why he is always bringing in new players at every available opportunity - the new players may give the team a small short-tern lift like Pennant, Pandiani and Nafti last transfer window before Bruce's methods negate this effect and we're left with the rubbish we've been served up with at various stages over the past two seasons. The fact we were relegated with 34 points is the most damning evidence in support of this.

Bruce's last act this season was to attack his playing staff in an attempt to deflect attention from himself - yet another excuse in a long litany of increasingly poor excuses. Cunningham has now put his side of the story, and frankly it's a lot closer to the truth than anything we've heard from the manager or board.

The board will probably allow their egos - massaged by four years of Premiership exposure - to let them sweep his words under the carpet. They've as good as said this: "the club now has no real interest in what Kenny has to say following the manner in which he has chosen to air his opinion."

A message to Messrs Sullivan and Gold - a lot of people have been telling you exactly what has been going on these past 12 months, but you've chosen to ignore it. A lot of those people have refrained from saying "I told you so", but if you damned well ignore the facts and allow your old pals' act to keep Steve Bruce in a job next season then this club will fester in the Championship and when you finally see sense I will be one who will tell you "I told you so". You will have failed in your duty as guardians of this club, wasted more money and will frankly lose a large amount of the support you've deservedly built up over the past 13 years.

You cannot keep trading on your "we saved BCFC" mantra forever - you have been handsomely backed by the fans of this football who have literally bought - with their own money - into your vision. For goodness sake - none of us on this board pretend to be professional experts on football, but if idiots like me can see what's been going on, why the hell can't you?
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StAndrews4Eva
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Gil Merrick
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hughesie
May 12 2006, 08:34 AM
no player is bigger than the club, and NO MANAGER bigger than the club

but at the moment bruce is using our club to prove a point to himself and the media instead of putting his hands and admitting his mistakes

Good point.

No one person is bigger than this club but i honestly dont believe that was Kenny's intentions. I believe he exposed this situation with the best interests of the club, players and fans at heart.

If the relevant changes are made - and i dont just mean the manager - then we will all be thanking Kenny in years to come for being the catalyst for change. Personally i am glad he has done this and hope that it kicks the board into action.
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bluelowe
Steve Claridge
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I feel a good point, well made.

but.

I still think what KK said rings true, there has been a problem this season, and all the things he said ring true to me, the fitness, the preparation, the tactics these are all things that have struck me at almost every match I attended this yr ( All but 2 home and 5 away)

I do also agree that there may be a sense of injustice or 'sour grapes' but I think he has still hit home and touched some very raw nerves, and as another reply stated, the silence of bruce is deafening.

Fitness wise, we have struggled
Tactics wise, we have struggled
motivation wise, we have struggled

and to be fair, there has not been a lot of a buzz or atmoshphere this yr, so Kenny I feel is pretty well spot on.

yes, as Bluenoses we always look on the bright side, and are renound for our support and humour et all, but I have lost count of the numerous posts about match day atmoshphere, tactics, fitness this player, that player this season.

I have always tried to stick by bruce, but it is true that the buck does stop with him, players will respond to good coaching, good management and playing somewhere they really enjoy.


and I say this from personal experience, albeit playing in the minor leagues of SW London & Surrey these days.


I can see both sides of this, but I have to say, whilst being a 'silent protester' for most of the season, I could see all the things KK has mentioned, and as they crept up on us and overwhelmed us, it became quite obvious to me.

We have stood still in terms of tactics and other things ythis season, I look at Bolton for example. they take a very scientific approach to their game, as do l;iverpool, bottom and chelsea, (off the field) and look at the amount of long term, niggly needless injuries they suffer. not half as many.


As my Boss would sy (regularly)

P P P P P P P

or P**s Poor Preperation Produces P**s Poor Performance

I work to that rule, and have found it very succesful,

Up the Blues, we will rise again,

KRO

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