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why were knocked out the world cup
Topic Started: Jun 20 2014, 07:54 PM (297 Views)
baron von bluenose
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Bob Latchford
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after 60 mins during the italy game we were chasing the game italy were on the back foot any attacking option at this point may have been seen as a positive change instead woy did f.a, uraguay's world beating 11 (not) simply gave it there all , before the game gerard said "who defends the best would win the game" i always thought goals won games , time after time joe hart threw the ball out to his nearest defender whats wrong with rocketing the ball in the oppositions half and taking the game to em.
rooneys 300k per week is a flaming joke he dont know what the word team is ,sulking overrated oaf , unimaginative, incomplete passing and general ignorance of the real game makes us predictable and easy to unpick.

good job weve already won it cuz we will never win it again
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brad1875
Alex Govan
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sounds like a typical knee-jerk reaction from an England fan.

Rooney was the best player on the pitch for England, why does everyone want to slag him off so quickly? If Barkley had played instead of Rooney, do you think we would of done any better?

We have been knocked out by Italy and Uraguay. If we were to face either of these sides in the knockout rounds and we lost, most of us wouldn't be too concerned.

Can someone please tell me the last time England beat a good side in a tournament? The players aren't the problem, the manager isn't the problem. The FA is the problem.

We've been cack for years and the only existing factor in this is the FA's ability to do F'All about it.
Edited by brad1875, Jun 20 2014, 08:10 PM.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 08:06 PM

Can someone please tell me the last time England beat a good side in a tournament?
Well there was Wales a couple of years back



Quote:
 
The players aren't the problem, the manager isn't the problem. The FA is the problem.

We've been cack for years and the only existing factor in this is the FA's ability to F'All.


Well they are not going to sack Hodgson....he has a contract though the Euros of 2016 and in fairness he deserves the chance to try and gain some momentum, he's only been in the role two years

Our England Under 17's just won the Euros for that age group and we have some very promising youngsters

England's problems over the past few big tournos have been the basic ability to keep possession and the final delivery where it matters.....this was glaringly obvious v Uruguay

I think we can win it in future years if we can try and develop more technically minded youngsters but having said that we still need a proportion of the engine room types and the players who can bite hard in tackles as well ......Look on the bright side.......we're still way ahead of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales .....even the Rep Of Ireland could not qualify for Brazil.......we still tend to be by far the best hope from the British Isles


**thumbup
Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 20 2014, 08:18 PM.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 08:06 PM
Can someone please tell me the last time England beat a good side in a tournament? The players aren't the problem, the manager isn't the problem. The FA is the problem.
England haven't won a knockout match against a top-tier international side at a World Cup on foreign soil.

Which is quite horrific really.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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The main reason we were knocked out was for taking reputation and not the current form.

Italy and Uruguay are comparatively nothing, Costa Rica have beaten both of them but we looked frightened and showed them too much respect and were too cagey. We fell for their reputations and not what they are today in 2014.

Hodgson also picked reputation over current form. Gerrard is just a name as is Rooney. We have plenty, plenty midfielders and forwards in form but he had to play those two reputations.

Hodgson is also at fault for not selecting Ashley Cole. I also believe he and the FA should have done something to try to get John Terry out of retirement.

I believe some fundamental errors by Hodgson deserves to get him sacked. He's a nice guy and I really like him but he bottled it and was just like any previous Engalnd manager.

Edited by lowdham bluenose, Jun 21 2014, 10:10 AM.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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franscar
Jun 20 2014, 09:22 PM
brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 08:06 PM
Can someone please tell me the last time England beat a good side in a tournament? The players aren't the problem, the manager isn't the problem. The FA is the problem.
England haven't won a knockout match against a top-tier international side at a World Cup on foreign soil.

Which is quite horrific really.
Who are we ranking as top tier though ???

Germany ? Italy ? Brazil ? Holland ?

We beat Cameroon and Belgium in 1990 ....both of them were very decent sides at the time

It wasn't a knockout phase but we did beat Argentina 1-0 in the 2002 World Cup , I'm sure we also beat the Germans on their own soil in 2006 as well ....and in the 1982 group stage we beat a decent France side as well.....I can still remember Captain Marvel Robbo scoring a goal in the first minute

In fact in 1982 we were eliminated despite not losing a single match.....that year did produce a great Final though......Italy v West Germany......cracking game :applause:



:Eng01:








Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 21 2014, 10:34 AM.
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brad1875
Alex Govan
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 21 2014, 10:33 AM
franscar
Jun 20 2014, 09:22 PM
brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 08:06 PM
Can someone please tell me the last time England beat a good side in a tournament? The players aren't the problem, the manager isn't the problem. The FA is the problem.
England haven't won a knockout match against a top-tier international side at a World Cup on foreign soil.

Which is quite horrific really.

It wasn't a knockout phase but we did beat Argentina 1-0 in the 2002 World Cup , I'm sure we also beat the Germans on their own soil in 2006 as well ....and in the 1982 group stage we beat a decent France side as well.....I can still remember Captain Marvel Robbo scoring a goal in the first minute




:Eng01:








Good shout regarding Argentina, i think that must be the last top side we beat in a tournament. However, even though we beat Argentina we still only managed to draw to Nigeria and Sweden [finished second in the group], beat Denmark, then lose to Brazil.

[this post has now turned into a history of England's WC success since i've been born :D ]

In 1994, didn't qualify.

In 1998 we beat Tunisia and Columbia and lost to Romania in the groups, before losing to Argentina.

Parti, we didn't beat or even play Germany in 2006. We beat Paraguay, Trinidad & Tobago and drew with Sweden in the groups. Then we beat Ecuador, before finally coming up against a decent side in Portugal and losing on penalties.

In 2010 we drew to USA and Algeria before beating Slovenia 1-0, just. We then came up against a good German side and lost, again.

Same old England. Beat the average sides in the groups, then come up against a top 10 international side and lose. Except this time we played the top 10 sides in the groups but still lost.

:Eng03:
Edited by brad1875, Jun 21 2014, 12:12 PM.
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brad1875
Alex Govan
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Just thought i'd follow on from the above and do a quick re-cap on the England Euro's history since 1993;

1996 - Drew to Switzerland & Beat Holland & Scotland in the groups. Beat Spain on penalties, before losing the Germans on penalties.

2000 - Lost to Portugal, Beat Germany and lost to Romania. Didn't make it out the group.

2004 - Lost to France, Drew to Croatia and Beat Switzerland. Lost to Portugal on penalties.

2008 - Didn't Qualify.

2012 - Drew with France & Beat Ukraine & Sweden. Lost to Italy on penalties.

So basically, we're rubbish. Anyone see a recurring pattern? If we come up against a good side, we usually lose.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 21 2014, 10:33 AM
franscar
Jun 20 2014, 09:22 PM
brad1875
Jun 20 2014, 08:06 PM
Can someone please tell me the last time England beat a good side in a tournament? The players aren't the problem, the manager isn't the problem. The FA is the problem.
England haven't won a knockout match against a top-tier international side at a World Cup on foreign soil.

Which is quite horrific really.
Who are we ranking as top tier though ???







Teams that have either played in or won a World Cup final in the last forty years.

So Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina, France, Spain and the Netherlands.
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pooley
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brad1875
Jun 21 2014, 12:21 PM
Just thought i'd follow on from the above and do a quick re-cap on the England Euro's history since 1993;

1996 - Drew to Switzerland & Beat Holland & Scotland in the groups. Beat Spain on penalties, before losing the Germans on penalties.

2000 - Lost to Portugal, Beat Germany and lost to Romania. Didn't make it out the group.

2004 - Lost to France, Drew to Croatia and Beat Switzerland. Lost to Portugal on penalties.

2008 - Didn't Qualify.

2012 - Drew with France & Beat Ukraine & Sweden. Lost to Italy on penalties.

So basically, we're rubbish. Anyone see a recurring pattern? If we come up against a good side, we usually lose.
That euro 96 the is the best england team I've seen in my lifetime. We could have son that comp. - you mentioned beating holland but we thrashed em. 4-1, the germany game we hit the post and gazza slid in missing the ball by millimetres during golden goal extra time, if not for southgates shoddy pen we would have won IMO
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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brad1875
Jun 21 2014, 12:12 PM
Parti, we didn't beat or even play Germany in 2006. We beat Paraguay, Trinidad & Tobago and drew with Sweden in the groups. Then we beat Ecuador, before finally coming up against a decent side in Portugal and losing on penalties.

Sorry, I got the wrong tournament

In the group stage of the 2000 Euros we beat Germany 1-0 ....Alan Shearer scored, that should have prompted me into thinking it was earlier, I can very vaguely recall the goal, wasn't it a far post header from him for a change ??? .....Unfortunately we lost to Portugal and Romania by the same scoreline (2-3) and went out early along with the Germans ....we were a shambles defensively during that tourno and again lacked true creativity, that was the beginning of the end for Keegan ......we need to learn from our past mistakes

:Eng09:
Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 21 2014, 08:01 PM.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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Alan Hansen sums it all up with an excellent and fairly hard hitting article from The Telegraph

Well worth the read


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10915634/World-Cup-2014-The-simple-truth-is-that-England-are-not-good-enough-to-succeed-on-the-world-stage.html


Also a good piece of writing from Jason Burt in the same paper


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10916705/World-Cup-2014-It-is-time-to-ditch-Club-England-nonsense-and-get-back-to-basics-in-time-for-France-2016.html



:Eng09:

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Lewis
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Paul Tait
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Some other thoughts:

Hart ~ auditioning for the remake of The Matrix. He certainly looked like Keanu Reeves as Nemo when dodging bullets for that last Uruguay goal. Didn't want to mess his hair up I guess.

Rooney ~ Whilst on hair. He has not been the same since getting his head relaid. Reckon the roots of the new mat have grown down into the small brain he had and he is now totally befuddled. Also joining in with Joe H in the rendition of the FYC song.

Other non negative contributions from Johnson and Gerrard.

All four of them singing the FYC song "I'm Not the Man I Used to be"

Apart from those four we had a half decent team and performance.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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Lewis
Jun 22 2014, 01:11 PM
Some other thoughts:

Hart ~ auditioning for the remake of The Matrix. He certainly looked like Keanu Reeves as Nemo when dodging bullets for that last Uruguay goal. Didn't want to mess his hair up I guess.

Rooney ~ Whilst on hair. He has not been the same since getting his head relaid. Reckon the roots of the new mat have grown down into the small brain he had and he is now totally befuddled. Also joining in with Joe H in the rendition of the FYC song.

Other non negative contributions from Johnson and Gerrard.

All four of them singing the FYC song "I'm Not the Man I Used to be"

Apart from those four we had a half decent team and performance.
Think you're being overly harsh and extremely selective there

Joe Hart did look nervy during both games but who is the better option between the sticks right now ?

Forster is a relative unknown and Foster is also renowned to have his shaky moments .....he even turned his back on the national side not that very long ago

If anyone came out of this current England WC squad with a head held high it would be Wayne Rooney

Cannot actually fault the effort made by any of them including Gerrard and Johnson who both play for one of the best teams in the Premier League and the club that provided a large proportion of the England teams that started .....as most journalists agree, England are just not good enough on the world stage at this moment in time.....we can get better though ....and there is no reason why our younger players cannot go on and achieve great things at national level



:Eng03:




Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 22 2014, 06:45 PM.
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boilerman
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Frank Worthington
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I'm never sure about Johnson, and then he goes and gives an assist for Rooney to score. Cannot get me head round the bloke :silence:
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Lewis
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Paul Tait
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Meant to be amusing Partisan. However I did feel that the four mentioned, who were supposedly the backbone of the England squad, and were there to give stability and experience to much younger and less experienced colleagues, turned England into an invertebrate. & Hart did the opposite to what any good keeper would do in the circumstances for the Uruguay second, he managed to get his whole body out of the way when shot at directly.

I have made a separate point to Man Citeh supporters in the past. Joe Hart was not that good when he came to Blues, but became world class whilst with us. Since returning to Man City, he has, again, become ordinary.

But you can't be serious hen you say you can't fault any of them, can you? I could make a very long list of faults for the four, and that in only two games.
Edited by Lewis, Jun 22 2014, 07:27 PM.
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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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"Some people are on the pitch ..................they think it's all over ....Well, it is now"


30 years ago, even 20 years ago......in fact even 10 years ago , England would have made mincemeat out of a team like Costa Rica.....and who would have thought it would have come down to playing a 4-5-1 against them just to avoid defeat

But fair play to them **thumbup , they deserve to go through, they beat Italy and Uruguay but they couldn't get one over us

I think this World Cup has certainly shown many of the smaller, little fancied nations have caught up somewhat with the traditional 'Giants' of world football

England controlled the Costa Rica game for the most part and at least we can take a few positives from this experience in Brazil ......Imagine how Italy are feeling right now , they were World Champions only 8 years ago and European Championship Finalists twice in the last 4 competitions, they have certainly fallen further than us in status after this showing


Ben Foster had a splendid game against CR.....as did Smalling and Shaw

Barkley, Lallana and Sterling all looked raw and the inexperience showed at times but are definitely three certainties for future England teams

Wilsehire can come out of the game pleased with his performance but still improvement expected from him, I'm not overly convinced with him TBTH .....England are still missing that 'Keegan, Alan Ball, Gazza or Scholes type' in the middle

Phil Jones looks slow and sluggish and Milner can probably start winding his future England chances down too, bottom line is that they are just not good enough, defensively we still have Kyle Walker and Steven Caulker to return and there's young Stones as well but England do seem to have a dearth of quality defenders (both full back berths and the central roles) knocking on the door at this moment in time .....which is highly unusual for us as we have produced so many great ones and many reliable ones in past decades

I'm pleased for Frank Lampard......he had a very good game and never gave up ......likely his last appearance but equalled the great Sir Bobby Charlton in caps.......Gerrard, if I'm not mistaken is close to Beckham's record of caps for an England outfield player but it's time to call it a day ......I think he will call it a day in a couple of weeks

He'll likely make way for Rooney as the next captain.....and Sturridge really needs to start converting more chances and needing less time in the box .......Not overly convinced with Welbeck either so it's up to every young England qualified striker to start battling it out for those front two spots, it's never too late for Defoe to maybe return although playing in the MLS won't exactly help his cause but then again it's done the Yanks no harm judging by this current summer feast of football far .......Ricky Lambert and perhaps even players like Danny Ings of Burnley, Nick Powell of Man Utd or Harry Kane of Tottenham should get more opportunities and Rodriquez of Southampton was injured as was Oxlade Chamberlain who can also play a striker role

Yes, it's not a good situation when the 3 Lions cannot even beat Costa Rica but this was one of the hardest groups of the 2014 World Cup in Brazil and at least we didn't lose all three....we have failed to beat Morocco, Montenegro, the USA and Algeria in past tournos and even the Australians have beaten us in a friendly game......they can rub it in with the cricket, doesn't bother me in the slightest but please not our 'real' national sport of Football

Time to start looking forward to the Euros in France in 2016


:Eng05:











Edited by PartisanBCFC, Jun 25 2014, 05:02 PM.
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baron von bluenose
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Bob Latchford
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in hindsight harry redknapp should have been the current england manager but thanks to his financial irregularities was side stepped and thats the real reason we never progressed in the world cup
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