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Another Player Unsettled ?
Topic Started: Oct 9 2006, 11:29 AM (719 Views)
gene autry
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Alex Govan
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From Clubcall:

Quote:
 
Star eyes Blues exit

09-10-2006 10:21 

Birmingham City's Marcos Painter has admitted he may have to leave St Andrew's on loan. 
Brighton and Hove Albion were hoping to sign the player on a temporary basis recently, but Blues manager Steve Bruce blocked the move by insisting he needed Painter as cover. 

However, he now feels he needs to play on a regular basis and does not want his career to stall. 
"The first I heard of the Brighton thing was when my mum read about it in the Birmingham Mail," said the defender. "The manager doesn't really talk to you about things like that unless he wants you to go.

"At the time I was included in our squads. Like anyone, I want to play first team football.
"I've played for the reserves for three years now and I can handle that football.

"To improve I need to be in somebody's side. You look around at what other younger players are doing in the game, and I'd like to be in the same situation."

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Zico
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Superb in his one game at centre back last season and should be given more chances in that position imo.

I'd put him ahead of Taylor and Tebily for centre back for starters.
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Bluenose_68
Peter Enckelman
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At his age he needs 1st teamfootie- so sending him out on loan would be the best thing for him

bn68
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gene autry
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Alex Govan
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Its only a thought, and not a contribution to the pro and anti debate.

As the two Argentinians have been alleged to have upset the harmony at West Ham - not because of their skill, but because of the fact that they are loanees and seem to have jumped the queue a bit.

Could our 3 loanees also be contributing to a sense of frustration amongst our established senior players as well as our up and coming players? Whilst not decrying their skills, nor ability, should we not be developing and giving experience to our own players on an equal level of opportunity ?

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Reginald-Perrin
Steve Claridge
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I think theres a few like him that should have and probably do have the tag of 'use em or lose em' attached.
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Sameth
Frank Worthington
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gene autry
Oct 9 2006, 11:42 AM
Its only a thought, and not a contribution to the pro and anti debate.

As the two Argentinians have been alleged to have upset the harmony at West Ham - not because of their skill, but because of the fact that they are loanees and seem to have jumped the queue a bit.

Could our 3 loanees also be contributing to a sense of frustration amongst our established senior players as well as our up and coming players? Whilst not decrying their skills, nor ability, should we not be developing and giving experience to our own players on an equal level of opportunity ?

They aren't loanees, but I understand what you are saying. The Hammers had a great flowing team last season, but that was disrupted when they quickly introduced two new players. I feel that is similar to what happened to us in our relegation season, we tried to introduce too many players at once.
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Boutros
Peter Enckelman
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I know he's only young and a centre-back and not a left-back but loaning out Painter until Xmas would be a very good idea.

On the basis of his performance v Leeds, he may be rivalling Tebily for the nickname "Bombscare".
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Blooboy
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gene autry
Oct 9 2006, 12:42 PM
Its only a thought, and not a contribution to the pro and anti debate.

As the two Argentinians have been alleged to have upset the harmony at West Ham - not because of their skill, but because of the fact that they are loanees and seem to have jumped the queue a bit.

Could our 3 loanees also be contributing to a sense of frustration amongst our established senior players as well as our up and coming players? Whilst not decrying their skills, nor ability, should we not be developing and giving experience to our own players on an equal level of opportunity ?

spot on, and it's something i have been advocating all along... distruption and jealousy in the ranks. why should a loanee get preferential treatment over a player who has actually signed the dotted line, maybe not what i think or a few other but imagine being a player in this position??
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acjboyle
Geoff Horsfield
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Blooboy
Oct 9 2006, 01:22 PM
gene autry
Oct 9 2006, 12:42 PM
Its only a thought, and not a contribution to the pro and anti debate.

As the two Argentinians have been alleged to have upset the harmony at West Ham - not because of their skill, but because of the fact that they are loanees and seem to have jumped the queue a bit.

Could our 3 loanees also be contributing to a sense of frustration amongst our established senior players as well as our up and coming players? Whilst not decrying their skills, nor ability, should we not be developing and giving experience to our own players on an equal level of opportunity ?

spot on, and it's something i have been advocating all along... distruption and jealousy in the ranks. why should a loanee get preferential treatment over a player who has actually signed the dotted line, maybe not what i think or a few other but imagine being a player in this position??

Perhaps Bruce is following after Sir Alex Ferguson in creating an atmosphere where no player has a divine right to be on the pitch. thus bringing in loan players increases the competition for places.
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chris_langs
Olivier Tebily
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Cant they set up a loan where he can be immediately recalled if we are desperately short of defenders, if so why has the loan been blocked because bruce doesnt seem interested in giving him any first team football, and the experience would do him good
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bcfc06
Paul Tait
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to be honest i think a loan would do him good he showed at leeds he was not quite ready to start.
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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he was rubbish against Leeds
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mr penguin
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the difference between loan players and "permanent" players is bogus these days... they are all here temporarily...
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Blooboy
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acjboyle
Oct 9 2006, 01:36 PM
Blooboy
Oct 9 2006, 01:22 PM
gene autry
Oct 9 2006, 12:42 PM
Its only a thought, and not a contribution to the pro and anti debate.

As the two Argentinians have been alleged to have upset the harmony at West Ham - not because of their skill, but because of the fact that they are loanees and seem to have jumped the queue a bit.

Could our 3 loanees also be contributing to a sense of frustration amongst our established senior players as well as our up and coming players? Whilst not decrying their skills, nor ability, should we not be developing and giving experience to our own players on an equal level of opportunity ?

spot on, and it's something i have been advocating all along... distruption and jealousy in the ranks. why should a loanee get preferential treatment over a player who has actually signed the dotted line, maybe not what i think or a few other but imagine being a player in this position??

Perhaps Bruce is following after Sir Alex Ferguson in creating an atmosphere where no player has a divine right to be on the pitch. thus bringing in loan players increases the competition for places.

all very well but some players are happy to sit on their harris's for a few years whilst they are getting their wages :angry:
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Joe
Geoff Horsfield
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Blooboy
Oct 9 2006, 12:22 PM
gene autry
Oct 9 2006, 12:42 PM
Its only a thought, and not a contribution to the pro and anti debate.

As the two Argentinians have been alleged to have upset the harmony at West Ham - not because of their skill, but because of the fact that they are loanees and seem to have jumped the queue a bit.

Could our 3 loanees also be contributing to a sense of frustration amongst our established senior players as well as our up and coming players? Whilst not decrying their skills, nor ability, should we not be developing and giving experience to our own players on an equal level of opportunity ?

spot on, and it's something i have been advocating all along... distruption and jealousy in the ranks. why should a loanee get preferential treatment over a player who has actually signed the dotted line, maybe not what i think or a few other but imagine being a player in this position??

That's the way football is going now, loaned players are everywhere.
I wouldn't think there is jealously the players would probably admit themselves although privately that hte three Arsenal lads are better than them, and they have done the business on the field.
Agree though that it can be risky and cause resentment but you can't equate this to the Argies at West Ham, who were hoisted upon Pardew and have disrupted their team. The Arsenal lads have added to our team and are very important.
As for Marcos, of course he wants to play more. A loan would do him good, like it did Kilkenny. Oji also needs to go somewhere on loan as well (if only to stop tactix PR for him)
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pa132435no2
Frank Worthington
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He wants to go on loan, that's not being unsettled.

Painter is an excellent young player. More pace and understanding of the game and he'd not only look like John Terry.
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wardendbluenose
Alex Govan
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The Concerned Potato Head
Oct 9 2006, 05:34 PM
he was rubbish against Leeds

May I add him being played out of position did'nt help either.

He needs a chance in his natural position of CB to show what he can do. A loan move might be the best option.
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Blacksmith
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Jeff Hall
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I think a loan will be the best thing for him. I also think his best position will eventually be full back and not centre back. He doesn't have the height or the heading ability.

Go out on loan Marcus and develop your full back skills, because you have the potential to be a very good full back, but forget centre back because you stand no chance there.
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StAndrewsNoMore
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I think Painter's best chance is to be a centre back.

He has played once in his natural position and he won Man on the Match in that game.

Also he raises a good point about not being kept informed that clubs were looking at taking him on loan. A player should not have to find out this information via his mom reading it in the paper.
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gene autry
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Alex Govan
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pa132435no2
Oct 9 2006, 06:28 PM
He wants to go on loan, that's not being unsettled.

Painter is an excellent young player. More pace and understanding of the game and he'd not only look like John Terry.

pa, I take your point in using the word unsettled.

Robbie Savage was probably our best example of an "unsettled" player, so there is no comparison in Marcus' case and his. However, in a settled side and a settled dressing room, players do not have the need to consider being loaned out.

If they know they will get their chance, they fight on for it. If they begin to fear that they won't get a chance, and find out about opportunities, from outside their club, then they are not a settled player in that instance.

**thumbup
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pa132435no2
Frank Worthington
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gene autry
Oct 10 2006, 09:51 AM
If they know they will get their chance, they fight on for it. If they begin to fear that they won't get a chance, and find out about opportunities, from outside their club, then they are not a settled player in that instance.

**thumbup

With respect, that's tunnel vision. If that was the case he'd hand in a transfer request and not ask for a loan.

He's a young player, up against international and European Cup players in the peak of their careers. They've got 15 years worth of experience that he doesn't have.

He wants to go out on loan to learn, gain sharpness. Maybe he might want to leave if he's not in Bruce's plans.

I wish we'd invest more in youth though. Despite Painter being ridiculously shat at some points against Leeds, he was special in some parts. The mistakes he made was down to awareness/experience, caught out of position. He was strong, battled, made simple effect balls/good crossing.

I look at players like Richards and Bale, and think if we invested in players like Oji and Painter they could be as special. Train them for awareness, give them some skill practice, get them on weight lifting programs.

Instead, it's probably 'OI Painter, try see if you can hit the crossbar from 30 yards, it's good target practice'.

See Burley for his thoughts on Bale's schedule. He said a player shouldn't play at the weekend, then midweek and on the weekend again, because they'll burn out and not recover. All of our players were flying at their old clubs, come to us and burn out. Bruce likes to play Bendtner in the league on the weekend, then mid week against a conference team, then on the weekend, then mid week internationals then again on the weekend.

Self-destructive set up. Might aswell just take a a hammer to the legs of our players.
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elvis ok
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Malcom Page
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Quote:
 
pa132435no2 Posted: Oct 10 2006, 06:38 PM 

With respect, that's tunnel vision. If that was the case he'd hand in a transfer request and not ask for a loan.


He didn't ask for a loan. Thats the point man.

A club tried to loan him and was kicked back - the player wasn't told about it by his manager, but by his mother, who read about it for goodness sake.

Rubbish man-management yet again.

The point raised was why do we have an Academy at all. To provide lesser clubs the opportunity to teach our products? Why can't we teach them and give them the experience that people like Bale are getting - at their own club.

I sometimes think Bruce just likes hanging out with the big boys, chatting up Sheppard & Wenger and doing them favours. After all it ain't his money he threw at Newcastle, and it ain't his products he's got in limbo land reserves.

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