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Mr Sullivan; in the Mail (merged)
Topic Started: Jan 9 2007, 01:38 PM (2,791 Views)
Woodbine
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Mikael Forssell
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DS .."Right from the start of the season, I've felt that we will go up."

You were also confident that SB would keep us up last season without any investment - when most fans knew he wouldn't!
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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it's sad when money comes between fan and club...

i'm sure most people here, when their other priorities are sorted, do what they feel is right in terms support, and it's sad that people who want to support find it hard to support because of the high cost games against low standard opposition

but to add on talk of the "stay-aways" (because it's true not every fan won't go simply for financial reasons)

today's Birmingham City is not like Derby or Ipswich etc who have ended up with better attendances. we don't have the mentality of a club who should be playing in this division. other teams see this as a normal season, they expect to be here, they aren't as angry about where they should be as we are, they don't constantly think about how it was in the Prem last season, they don't harp on about how they should sign Premiership class players so that they do well in the Prem next season, for them they feel as if this is their level but feel they have a chance of promotion (teams like Watford or even the Birmingham side who got promoted in 2002 for example).

for us i think people think to themselves "look, we went down when we shouldnt have gone down, now you take the mick by not lowering the season ticket prices/match ticket prices to that of the most other teams in the league".

for us there is not ONE game that we don't look upon as if we're playing a glamorous fixture, not even Leeds, WBA or Wolves. even Preston, top of the table clash, yet we all have the mentality, yeah we should win, we're a Prem team playing in the wrong league (and why wouldnt they have that attitude, we were quite lofty - by our standards - in the Premiership finishing midtable every season apart from the last, whilst signing big name players, we were talking about Europe and we became accustomed to it), we're too good to be on the same pitch as these teams of no-name budget players, so why are we being charged these prices? the football hasnt always shown superiority but it's what most of us probably think, that we are too superior for this league, and so develop an apathetic attitude towards the vast majority of the games that leaves fans fed-up about where the club is going. one minute it was UEFA Cup, the next it's Southend and Colchester, false dawns, deceptions and broken promises. most people probably don't see this season as a fresh challenge but rather a devastating step back that needs to be amended ASAP. i'm not trying to dish out excuses but i can fully understand if many people think this way










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"This is Dr. Frasier Crane at KACL, wishing you good mental health..."
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Bookemdanno
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Alex Govan
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tiltontrev
Jan 9 2007, 08:18 PM
I dont care what people think about `my type` clearly not on our own,the working class man is not abadoning his club he`s being driven away from it.

Your average family has a mortgage,kids,car,bills to pay for FIRST and for me £30 would take too much of a large chunk out of what remains to justify spending it on division 2 football match.

I couldn't agree more. Its not just the parents who can struggle tho.

I go as i don't have any ties and am lucky enough to be able to afford it. But as a parent you have responsibilites, and food on the table, heating, fuel to get to work takes priority. Football is secondary.

How about someone on the average wage, with no family to support?

Lets say earns around 20k per year. £1200 after tax per month.
Rent and Bills about £800 per month (going by girlfriends figures). My fuel bills £100 per month so say that. Mobile phone £30 per month. Internet £25 per month. Car insurance is £30 per month. ........NO SKY, can't afford it!!!

That leaves £215 per month. Take £150 for food per month. Leaving £65 per month to splash out that month. That is providing you don't have any credit card bills to pay. Take two home matches at £25 each. Will leave you £15 and are you not going to have aything to eat drink at the club no beer at £2.70 a pint, no program at £3.00.

If not you got £15 to enjoy for the whole month. **thumbup :(

Get a grip Sullivan.
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Left handed screwdriver
Frank Worthington
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Bookemdanno
Jan 10 2007, 11:10 AM
tiltontrev
Jan 9 2007, 08:18 PM
I dont care what people think about `my type` clearly not on our own,the working class man is not abadoning his club he`s being driven away from it.

Your average family has a mortgage,kids,car,bills to pay for FIRST and for me £30 would take too much of a large chunk out of what remains to justify spending it on division 2 football match.

I couldn't agree more. Its not just the parents who can struggle tho.

I go as i don't have any ties and am lucky enough to be able to afford it. But as a parent you have responsibilites, and food on the table, heating, fuel to get to work takes priority. Football is secondary.

How about someone on the average wage, with no family to support?

Lets say earns around 20k per year. £1200 after tax per month.
Rent and Bills about £800 per month (going by girlfriends figures). My fuel bills £100 per month so say that. Mobile phone £30 per month. Internet £25 per month. Car insurance is £30 per month. ........NO SKY, can't afford it!!!

That leaves £215 per month. Take £150 for food per month. Leaving £65 per month to splash out that month. That is providing you don't have any credit card bills to pay. Take two home matches at £25 each. Will leave you £15 and are you not going to have aything to eat drink at the club no beer at £2.70 a pint, no program at £3.00.

If not you got £15 to enjoy for the whole month. **thumbup :(

Get a grip Sullivan.

totally spot on. **thumbup
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Alex Govan
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second rate kit supplier
budget airline as main sponsor
club shop located next to the 99p store

mr sullivan i suggest you question how big your staff think the club is........
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BARNETTSrun
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Malcom Page
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a season of complete DROSS last year , and lets not beat around the bush !! it was COMPLETE AND UTTER DROSS !!

season tickets frozen at the already extortionate rate

a realisation that they have made an error

reduced pricing - thus alienating the people who have (me included ) stumped up the cash

and he is tired of the GIMME GIMME GIMME !!

kettle pot and black spring to mind

a classic rant from someone who puts CASH before PEOPLE

IMO
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DuDuDugarry
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Frank Worthington
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Bookemdanno
Jan 10 2007, 11:10 AM
tiltontrev
Jan 9 2007, 08:18 PM
I dont care what people think about `my type` clearly not on our own,the working class man is not abadoning his club he`s being driven away from it.

Your average family has a mortgage,kids,car,bills to pay for FIRST and for me £30 would take too much of a large chunk out of what remains to justify spending it on division 2 football match.

I couldn't agree more. Its not just the parents who can struggle tho.

I go as i don't have any ties and am lucky enough to be able to afford it. But as a parent you have responsibilites, and food on the table, heating, fuel to get to work takes priority. Football is secondary.

How about someone on the average wage, with no family to support?

Lets say earns around 20k per year. £1200 after tax per month.
Rent and Bills about £800 per month (going by girlfriends figures). My fuel bills £100 per month so say that. Mobile phone £30 per month. Internet £25 per month. Car insurance is £30 per month. ........NO SKY, can't afford it!!!

That leaves £215 per month. Take £150 for food per month. Leaving £65 per month to splash out that month. That is providing you don't have any credit card bills to pay. Take two home matches at £25 each. Will leave you £15 and are you not going to have aything to eat drink at the club no beer at £2.70 a pint, no program at £3.00.

If not you got £15 to enjoy for the whole month. **thumbup :(

Get a grip Sullivan.

Not being able to afford it is different to it being too expensive. On the main site yesterdya the club were advertising for people to sell the matchday lottery thing. Commission only plus you get in for free. How many people went for that ? I'll bet very few because people these days dont want to work for it.
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valleyblue
Paul Tait
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Well said BookemDanno - The economics of the real world which DS & Co. despite their humble beginnings seem to have completely lost track of.

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vivienne04
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Geoff Horsfield
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I grew up with season tickets in the paddock. I've been on the Kop and in the Tilton. I've stood there from about 10/11 on my own or with friends and we used to run around and really **** off some of the older blokes.
In all that time and in all the programmes I've read, I have never heard so much demanding and threatening language as has come from david Sullivan.
The short answer is, if he doesn't l;ike it buggar off. Sell up. Go.

The Coombsand S&U stores may have been seen as multi-millionaires, but they weren't. They did their best in their means but they never slagged off the people who couldn't turn up. They never attacked the supporters like this board and this manager have.
And the reason I say that is because I'm told by my family, for years and years that the blues fans were the most strident and vociferous fans ever seen in trying to get rid of the board and the manager. And that this board don't know they're born.

I am sick of having D Sullivan wanting me to stop buying the Evening Mail or going into certain bookshops and stop buying the Post or stop using Clubcall. I'm just a pawn in his game of making money. The fact that I am blue and blue right through means nothing to him.
Now he tells me that Steve has spent his budget and he's going to do us a favour because I have let him down by being at college 250 miles away and not buying tickets.

Do me a big favour Mr Porn baron. Sell your shares to David and Ralph Gold and buggar off.

:Blues:
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Hirsty
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I haven't really added anything to this debate yet - other than a comment as Admin - so here goes. A personal opinion only.

Whilst I agree that ticket prices are overpriced for the division we are in, and more thought should have been put into the pricing structure last summer to appease ST holders and POTD fans, all I seem to see in this type of thread is that the majority of people simply cannot afford to go. As explained in many posts, this is fair enough, and is simple economics - Food and Shelter etc for families must come first.

What I don't quite understand, though, is why we are only seeing this "can't afford it argument" now we are in the championship. Last season - in the Prem - ticket prices were the same. Fact. ST Prices were frozen this season, with a discount next season available if we renewed (I did..).

If it's too expensive this season (for those who cannot afford it, as opposed to those who are staying away on principle (with whom I have no argument. We are all entitled to our own opinions etc, and you are voting with your feet.)) , then why was it not too expensive last season ??. Or are we talking about a different type of supporter ??.

I suspect the latter is nearer the truth, and the Prem Prawnies (for want of better words) will suddenly find the keys to their 4x4's and remember their pin numbers when we return to the top flight this summer - yet again pricing out the average fan (like many of you reading this).

Or is that being cynical ?

I was going to go all political for a minute there, but decided against it... Maybe next time.

KRO,

C.
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mr penguin
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hirsty
Jan 10 2007, 08:27 PM
Or are we talking about a different type of supporter ??.

I suspect the latter is nearer the truth, and the Prem Prawnies (for want of better words) will suddenly find the keys to their 4x4's and remember their pin numbers when we return to the top flight this summer - yet again pricing out the average fan (like many of you reading this).


I think that is part of the answer & I agree that the prawn sarnies will be back if we go up. It's a dangerous route for the club to go down imo as those "fans" are quickest to lose interest once the novelty wears off or when the club goes through a bad patch or when football becomes less fashionable. Basically the club is courting a more affluent but far more fickle fanbase.

I think it is also true that some "ordinary" fans will find the money for the premiership but not for the championship. That's fair enough in my book. If a family has to make a choice between (e.g.) a pair of STs or a summer holiday then they are more likely to sacrifice the holiday to watch premiership football than to watch championship football.
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vivienne04
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Geoff Horsfield
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Yes Hirsty, I agree with you.
I think many people pinched nd saved to get Season tickets last year - because we'd see man U, Liverpool Arsenal and Cheslea.
But to pay the same price this year, regardless of muffled promises about freezing for the second year ( what did that mean - no promotion?) - well imo that was a bite too far.

I've had seasons from the age of 10. In the Paddock and in the main Stand. I haven't had seasons for the last two years because of travel costs from college.

If I had my job now, I would seriously think twice at these prices. They are steep. And now we are being berated for not turning up for a Cup match that we were told was not important.

It is price. It is the way this management operate. (Did Jack Walker ever slate the Blackburn fans for not attending ? They had enough low gates even with Shearer in their side and winning the Prem). I'm sick to death of listening to Sullivan whinge about fans.

And the last time I saw him he leered at me and my friend and we both felt sick in the corridor outside the Gold room. who does he think he is ?
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Hirsty
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mr penguin
Jan 10 2007, 08:38 PM
I think it is also true that some "ordinary" fans will find the money for the premiership but not for the championship. That's fair enough in my book. If a family has to make a choice between (e.g.) a pair of STs or a summer holiday then they are more likely to sacrifice the holiday to watch premiership football than to watch championship football.

Agreed - but the danger is that many of those "ordinary fans" will never return (having decided that a couple of weeks in Spain or wherever is still much better value), not only losing a great existing fan-base, but potentially future generations of Blues fans as well.

Football in general - and not just here - is in a sorry state.

C.

KRO.
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Mad4Blues
Martin Grainger
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bookemdanno - spot on mate, maybe they should publish that in the evening mail.

i got so desperate to go down the blues that i became a steward even tho i eventually had to leave due to work commitments.

DS has to realise that we cannot afford his ridiculous prices and its as simple as that.

plus the crowds were much lower before DS etc got here (down to 4000 at one stage) so he should think himself lucky that we still get an average of around 21000 especially after last seasons suicide campaign.

29 quid to watch leeds this saturday?!?! no thanks mr sillyman i mean sullivan
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valleyblue
Paul Tait
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Hirsty the difference is my family can appreciate me wanting to go and see Blues play the likes of Man U etc. so the cutting back elsewhere in the budget can be justified but if even I can't justify paying £29 to see Stoke to myself how am I going to convince my Mrs & Kids that they can't go on holiday this year because Dad spent the holiday funds going to see the likes of Colchester etc.

It costs me including the ticket price (based on £29) £60 - 70 by the time I've paid for fuel and everthing so 5 games at that rate and I've paid for 1 persons holiday.

Maybe if DS reads this he can work out why I'm not going to games.
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Hirsty
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valleyblue
Jan 10 2007, 09:01 PM
Hirsty the difference is my family can appreciate me wanting to go and see Blues play the likes of Man U etc. so the cutting back elsewhere in the budget can be justified but if even I can't justify paying £29 to see Stoke to myself how am I going to convince my Mrs & Kids that they can't go on holiday this year because Dad spent the holiday funds going to see the likes of Colchester etc.

It costs me including the ticket price (based on £29) £60 - 70 by the time I've paid for fuel and everthing so 5 games at that rate and I've paid for 1 persons holiday.

Maybe if DS reads this he can work out why I'm not going to games.

Understand that, valley. Which is why I (hope) didn't point the finger at any particular area of support (other than a mention for the Prem Prawnies). I, too, travel, although no where near as far for home games, and am perhaps fortunate to have an understanding wife (although she knew Blues were important when we met). :rolleyes:

Bottom line is we all have our reasons - in many cases they will be very similar to your own, but I feel there are still some out there who are using the "too expensive" as a means of protest and excuse - but as I did note, Families do come first.

As an aside (well, nearly..), Would you pay current prices to see Wigan, Sheff Utd or Watford (no disrespect to any) if we were in the Prem ? And if so (and I'm not saying it is), then why does it suddenly become too expensive in the Championship ?

I have no doubt that if we are where we are come April, the "sold-out" signs will be up fairly early - "Quarter Season Tickets", anyone ???? :unsure:

KRO,

C.
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northside blue
Frank Worthington
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I have had a s/t since sullivan bought the club, i did not renew because they kept the price the same as in the prem.
I can afford to go money is not the problem, i choose not to out of principal.
The only people to blame are the club themselves, simple as that.
Only games i go to are away now.
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valleyblue
Paul Tait
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Hirsty chances are not any more - The first 2seasons in the prem I missed a few games because of Monday night or Sunday Evening kick-offs (simply can't hack the travelling). Them with a new house and a change of job my priorities had to change so the odd Saturday game got missed. I think that's when the habit of going got lost somewhat.

In the last 2 seasons in the prem I got to about 15 games the last Prem game I went to was Albion at home (the Liverpool game broke my spirit) and now I don't think I could justify going to the likes of those you mentioned in the Prem. at the prices charged.

I'm not a glory hunter I was there every home game during the days of the Kumars and Ken Scrap (yes I was one of the 4000) and before.

As I've already said what's happened is I've got out of the habit of going, found other things to do with my time and moneyand Blues have slipped from 1st in my spare time/money list to somewhere near the bottom, just above changing the oil on the car. Don't get me wrong I'm not boasting about it, it's just a fact of life that things have changed.


p.s. never thought you were pointing the finger. Those that post that people should put BCFC first and foremost in your life are the ones that annot me.
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mr penguin
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valleyblue
Jan 10 2007, 10:14 PM
As I've already said what's happened is I've got out of the habit of going, found other things to do with my time and moneyand Blues have slipped from 1st in my spare time/money list to somewhere near the bottom, just above changing the oil on the car.

This is a key point that I think sully, kb, etc have never really grasped : i.e. once people lose the habit it is difficult to get them back with one off deals.
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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Mad4Blues
Jan 10 2007, 08:48 PM
bookemdanno - spot on mate, maybe they should publish that in the evening mail.


i had a post of mine published in the Birmingham Mail today :D
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mr penguin
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The Concerned Potato Head
Jan 10 2007, 10:27 PM
Mad4Blues
Jan 10 2007, 08:48 PM
bookemdanno - spot on mate, maybe they should publish that in the evening mail.


i had a post of mine published in the Birmingham Mail today :D

was it the one about 90% of people who phone in on The Mint being from Manchester ?
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insidevoice
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Martin Grainger
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northside blue
Jan 10 2007, 09:26 PM
I have had a s/t since sullivan bought the club, i did not renew because they kept the price the same as in the prem.
I can afford to go money is not the problem, i choose not to out of principal.
The only people to blame are the club themselves, simple as that.
Only games i go to are away now.

If you choose not to go, not to support... which is your right by the way.... then IMO you choose not to have a say in the clubs affairs any longer. Bye Bye. :P
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Hirsty
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valleyblue
Jan 10 2007, 10:14 PM
As I've already said what's happened is I've got out of the habit of going, found other things to do with my time and moneyand Blues have slipped from 1st in my spare time/money list to somewhere near the bottom, just above changing the oil on the car. Don't get me wrong I'm not boasting about it, it's just a fact of life that things have changed.

And good luck to you - more "proof", if ever needed, of the point I made earlier in the thread when replying to mr penguin. It does not make you any less of a supporter. Fans will lose the habit of going, and price has played a massive part.
This does happen to all of us - I missed 4 or 5 years around mid 80's because I couldn't afford it to begin with (yes - even back then) having moved away from Birmingham into a relatively low paid job, and then moving onto shift work which meant most weekends were affected.

It does change, my love for Blues never diminshed, and I'm now (luckily) able to afford the time and money go again - and will try to continue while I can. You never know what is around the corner.

Quote:
 
p.s. never thought you were pointing the finger. Those that post that people should put BCFC first and foremost in your life are the ones that annoy me.
Tough one for me - I'm now at the stage where Blues can come first if I like. 2nd wife knew this when we met, so it's not a huge issue - but then maybe I am lucky (or mad... :unsure: ). Family (no kids of my own) all grown up. Step-Grandson my only real focus - and he's a mini-Bluenose in the making.

KRO,

C.
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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mr penguin
Jan 10 2007, 10:32 PM
The Concerned Potato Head
Jan 10 2007, 10:27 PM
Mad4Blues
Jan 10 2007, 08:48 PM
bookemdanno - spot on mate, maybe they should publish that in the evening mail.


i had a post of mine published in the Birmingham Mail today :D

was it the one about 90% of people who phone in on The Mint being from Manchester ?

:laugh:

it's funny cuz it's true!

naw, mine was on the page with the large pic of Sully and Bruce, under A. Glenn :ph43r:

they edited like every sentence.
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Hirsty
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The Concerned Potato Head
Jan 10 2007, 10:40 PM
it's funny cuz it's true!

naw, mine was on the page with the large pic of Sully and Bruce, under A. Glenn :ph43r:

they edited like every sentence.

3 things - did they ask your permission before publishing, did they ask permission to edit (i.e. was it a true reflection of your post), and any chance of a transcript for those of us who don't get (or can't get) the Birmingham Mail ??

KRO,

C.
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