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| Keano Vs Bruce; whats Keano got that Brucie hasn't? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 7 2007, 09:34 PM (252 Views) | |
| Blooboy | May 7 2007, 09:34 PM Post #1 |
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can anyone explain to me how Roy Keane has turned Sunderland around like he has...... what has he got, more importantly how has he got those players to respond in the way they have?? It's a mystery to me.... i look at our team and although Steve has completely changed the playing squad, they still play almost in the same manner. serious thoughts please?? |
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| franscar | May 7 2007, 10:00 PM Post #2 |
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Mikael Forssell
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He's taken over at a club that's just been taken over and somewhere with a real feelgood factor. He's spent well during the season and bought in some good players to get Sunderland out of the division. Whether the same players are good enough for the Premiership, whether he will have the tactical nous to compete in the Premiership or if he has the eye to seek out players good enough to keep them in the Premiership remains to be seen. He clearly rules with an iron discipline, leaving those players behind that missed the team coach for example, and that will work with players at this level, but will it wash with primadonna Premiership types? West Ham this season have illustrated the problems that can be caused by losing the discipline of the players. As for Blues, I don't buy that we play the same as we ever did at all. We're far more patient despite calls from the crowd to send the ball forward with every pass. We play with a lot more pace and energy than before, and had Keane had to work under the same pressures and expectations, not to mention the numbers willing failure upon him, then maybe he would have been more pragmatic as well. Keane was under no pressure this season. Nobody would have criticised Sunderland for finishing midtable after the start they had. Bruce was under pressure right from the off. He's getting dogs abuse despite getting Blues promoted. Therein lies a major part of the difference. |
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| Sam Tyler | May 7 2007, 10:01 PM Post #3 |
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Keane has to be judged over three or four seasons, not just on one good year. Bruce also performed miracles in his first year here. Likewise, Stuart Pearce at Man City, etc, etc. |
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| gene autry | May 7 2007, 10:13 PM Post #4 |
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Alex Govan
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The club were taken over long before Keane arrived frans, and were managed on a temporary basis by Nial Quinn, who took them to the bottom of the table after 6 games. If you look ath e the attendances under Nail, you will be had pressed imo, to find any "feel good factor". In actual fact there was some antagonism to Keane, as an unproven "friend" of the Chairman. It took some time to win them around, and it took some time to start building up the attendances. Nial Quin did jaunts to Ireland to import fans, he visited almost every WMC and Society in Sunderland to encourage the fans to return. That was all in 2007. The feel good factor and missing fans began to arrive whenthey reached about 7th or 8th. It was what Keane was achieveing on the pitch that bought the fans in and also made them feel good. And that was only about March/April. Which leaves the question blooboy asked. What has he got ? Its a good question. I don't know, but I wish we had it. :D |
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| Deleted User | May 8 2007, 12:38 AM Post #5 |
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There was no feelgood factor whatsoever at Sunderland when Keane took over. Discipline wise, Keane wouldn't sign anybody if he thought there was going to be a problem. I think his stance will work in the premiership with better players, it certainly worked at Bolton under Allardyce. There was only one boss there and I think it will be the same with Keane. In this politically correct world that we all live in, and listening to spin doctors day in day out, hearing cliche after cliche, it's nice to see a few 'old school' members enjoying success. Keane, Allardyce, Harry Redknapp, Alex Ferguson, and I would even include Steve Coppell (as old school) there because you never hear too many complaints at the clubs he's managed. They have the respect of everyone, are extremely professional and their players know that they are privileged to wear their club's shirt, I couldn't see the captain of any of those clubs throwing their shirt away after getting subbed and still keeping the captaincy. Frans, I admire the way you stick up for our manager - but to even suggest that we don't play the kind of football that most neutrals wouldn't give you a thank you for....well mate, I think you're deluding yourself. I'm not turning this into a 'Bruce out' thread, but I genuinely believe he'd make a fantastic politician - as Karren Brady said when he took over from Trevor Francis: "He's such a charmer." His 5 and a half years here have proved to me that we are an unattractive, long ball team, and as long as he stays at the helm we always will be. Having said that, pleased as punch we've been promoted and really looking forward to next season. Amen. |
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| Lucky | May 8 2007, 05:48 AM Post #6 |
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Bob Latchford
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what has keane done that brucie did not do in his first year here, judge keane when he comes under pressure from 40 thousand mackems then see his reaction. |
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| Wisel | May 8 2007, 07:46 AM Post #7 |
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It is an interestng comparison. Same background(ish), same sort of reputation and same mentor. It is hard to define how good Keane is, less so with Bruce. In the first years of management players tend to live on their playing reputation. Everyone at the moment sees Keane in the light of his characteristics as a player, his players have that 'respect' for someone who has done it, and done it at the highest level. I am sure they are respectfully scared of his reputation at the moment as well. After a while the man's ability as a genuine manager come through. Each time he is in a difficult situation his reactions will be judged, just as htey have been with Bruce. Only then will people be able to see the real manager in Keane. It has to take some time realistically. The only thing that Bruce has, that Keane doesn't at this time (turning he question into a half full question) is an experienecd managers reputation. I am certain, for instance, that Bruce has managerial bottle in spades, maybe Keane does too, but it is too early to be sure. (and that is only one of many many attribues to a manager anyway) |
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| bornblues64 | May 8 2007, 06:09 PM Post #8 |
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Mikael Forssell
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An irish accent ?? |
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| Kripola | May 8 2007, 06:55 PM Post #9 |
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Jose Dominguez
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A straight(ish) nose! :ph43r: |
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| bornblues64 | May 8 2007, 07:16 PM Post #10 |
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Mikael Forssell
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A normal size head |
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| canadian brummie | May 9 2007, 01:34 AM Post #11 |
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Malcom Page
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Agree. It's too early to judge him or indeed compare him to Bruce. Next season will be a good one to fugure out if he has it oe not. P.S. I do have to say though that I lost all respect for the man when I watched him deliberately try to end Harland's career. A man who can hold a grudge that long has something missing imo. |
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| Deleted User | May 9 2007, 05:56 AM Post #12 |
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Yeah, we finished 5th in the league. Scraped by Millwall and did Norwich on pens. Did I miss him feeding everyone at half time with a couple of fishes and an uncut loaf? |
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| ESONEULB | May 9 2007, 06:18 AM Post #13 |
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Bluenose Ad Vitam = Bluenose For Life
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What has he got, it's simple...........Belief and the winners instinct......He had it as a player and has it as a coach/manager. I bet he had it when he was he had his first walk or crawl. His next step will be very interesting and we will see what he does. He will have a blip happen sometime and we will see whether he copes then. Steve has been there and done that and got a badge and he will see us ok. If he stays on the path he is on and stays away from the journey men with injuries. You get what you pay for in this sport and if a club lets a player go it is for a reason. :Blues: |
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| Bluediver | May 10 2007, 06:47 AM Post #14 |
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Alex Govan
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I think the main quality is that Keane doesn't panic under pressure. One of Bruces biggest failings is that he does. Example. Reverse the fixtures on the last day of the season. Bruce would have gone to Luton trying not to lose and hoping PNE would get something against Sunderland. We may have scraped a draw or lost by the odd goal. Keane would have gone to Preston demanding nothing less than a win, and being prepared to accept the possible consequences by doing so. That's the main difference. Bottle. Keane has won a trophy this season. The Championship title. Bruce threw it away. No bottle. |
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| proserpine | May 10 2007, 10:56 AM Post #15 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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Why are people comparing Keane's first year in management with Brucie's first year at Blues ? Bit odd surely. Steve had already been managing for 2 or 3 years before he came to Blues. A proper comparison is in their first years as a manager. Completely different situation then :kiss: |
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| proccy_blues | May 10 2007, 11:09 AM Post #16 |
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Joe Bradford
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strange, it looked like mcsheff and n'gotty and cole who missed at preston - i never even saw bruce playing! maybe it's the players who lacked bottle and the one-eyed fans with their own agendas, eh? then again, maybe not... :rolleyes: |
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| keepthecityblue | May 10 2007, 08:15 PM Post #17 |
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Frank Worthington
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Oh i like this game: A Champions League winners medal? Four more Premiership winners medals? An SPL medal? A better managerial win percentage? In all seriousness though, its too early to judge Keano as a manager i think, give him more time, and we'll see how he does. |
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| jassyblue80 | May 11 2007, 01:00 PM Post #18 |
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Trevor Francis
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lack of managerial experience? |
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| blue wsm | May 11 2007, 02:27 PM Post #19 |
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Ian Bennett
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good shout ..keane hasnt been doing the job long enough to be compared with anyone yet.if he keeps the mackems up and not by only just ,then the yardstick is there to look at |
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| forever blue | May 12 2007, 09:37 AM Post #20 |
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Peter Enckelman
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a caravan? :ph43r: |
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| elvis ok | May 12 2007, 12:09 PM Post #21 |
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Malcom Page
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You can compare anything and anyone, like for like. So you can compare Keane's first year with Pearce's no problem.Allowing for divisional diffs. But its pointless comparing Keane's first year with Bruces 3rd or 4th year, which was his first year at Blues. |
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| westcountryblue | May 12 2007, 06:52 PM Post #22 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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an international cap |
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| proud2bblue | May 13 2007, 04:49 PM Post #23 |
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Ian Bennett
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Well said Sam,my thoughts exactly. |
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2:38 PM Jul 11