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Tactics
Topic Started: Sep 1 2007, 06:40 PM (687 Views)
Bobbyzimmerframe
Unregistered

Obviously I agree that the tatical issue is an important one otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread but when someone as successful as Brian Clough questions their relevance then I think we should sit up and listen. While getting the system right would certainly help us I believe that we simply don't have the quality in the side right now to expect anything more than a grim relegation struggle.
I have no idea why David D was allowed to leave given that we paid him well whilst he was injured and then almost as soon as he was fit he was shunted off, at great financial loss, to where he had come from. I suspect that the board had a hand in this given their publicly stated dislike of highly paid footballers.
To me, unless Oubina comes off, things are looking distinctly dodgy but then Ive always been a pessimist as far as our lot go.
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tevets
Geoff Horsfield
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Bobbyzimmerframe
Sep 2 2007, 11:01 AM
Obviously I agree that the tatical issue is an important one otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread but when someone as successful as Brian Clough questions their relevance then I think we should sit up and listen. While getting the system right would certainly help us I believe that we simply don't have the quality in the side right now to expect anything more than a grim relegation struggle.
I have no idea why David D was allowed to leave given that we paid him well whilst he was injured and then almost as soon as he was fit he was shunted off, at great financial loss, to where he had come from. I suspect that the board had a hand in this given their publicly stated dislike of highly paid footballers.
To me, unless Oubina comes off, things are looking distinctly dodgy but then Ive always been a pessimist as far as our lot go.

Clough dismissed tactics and basically stuck to the same formation. However, it was a slightly different era and he had a game plan, stuck to it but also made sure he had the players to play to his system.

In the modern game tactics are far more important, with many sides playing different ways one tactic is never going to be enough. You also have to adapt when you don’t have players good enough to play in a certain way or a certain role, we never do that.

We also never seem to look at the opposition and say X is a weak point we will play this way to capitalise. We basically have two systems defend for your life and hope to nick a goal and defend more and hope for 0-0. Which tactic to use is wholly governed by how much respect Bruce has for the opposition.
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abblue
Frank Worthington
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Clough also instilled into his players the one factor that can win you anything. If you look at any old films of his teams they could all pass accurately from one player to another. I would guess that any of his teams has a higher completed pass rate to a team member than any other team. Now go and watch any Blues match - you will see that we must have the worst record of them all for giving the ball away to the opposition.
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tevets
Geoff Horsfield
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abblue
Sep 3 2007, 05:28 PM
Clough also instilled into his players the one factor that can win you anything. If you look at any old films of his teams they could all pass accurately from one player to another. I would guess that any of his teams has a higher completed pass rate to a team member than any other team. Now go and watch any Blues match - you will see that we must have the worst record of them all for giving the ball away to the opposition.

A lot of our bad passing though is down to the formation. Two defensive central midfielders causes us to play too deep and leaves too big a gap to the forwards.

We are constantly under pressuer in our own half with no out let other than a sideways pass under pressure or a hoof down the field, both are high risk passes which seldom come off. Even the defence can only make a short pass to the defensive midfielders or a hoof.

We need people making runs through the middle. We need to go forward at pace as a unit and defend as one. We do neither because of the team set up. A simple change of not being so negative in the middle of the pitch would transform us yet Bruce never even tries this aproach. On the very odd occasion he does go more attcking he goes gung ho, he just doesn't seem to understand balance.
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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correct me if I am wrong (and I normally am) but wasn't Clem a creative midfielder? and Izzet? and Jarosik? all fell by the wayside under Bruce.
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Joe
Geoff Horsfield
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Clemence never been a creative midfidler, a fetcher and carrier. Izzet was never fit, Jarosik's attitude was disgraceful he didn't want to be here. Bottom line is that if you have/buy the best players - and are prepared to spend the money it takes - you are more likely to be successful. It's down to players, not tactics.
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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The_Bear
Sep 3 2007, 07:15 PM
correct me if I am wrong (and I normally am) but wasn't Clem a creative midfielder? and Izzet? and Jarosik? all fell by the wayside under Bruce.

who targetted and bought them? also players like christophe? oh yes, sb.....
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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The_Bear
Sep 3 2007, 06:15 PM
correct me if I am wrong (and I normally am) but wasn't Clem a creative midfielder? and Izzet? and Jarosik? all fell by the wayside under Bruce.

In fairness to Izzet, in the few matches he was fit he looked like a cracking player. Bursting into the box, making runs, picking passes, getting sent off for diving when he was brought down. Losing him to injury was a real blow, he had all the tools to be a really important player for the club.

Clemence has never struck me as a particularly creative player, especially not at this level. What he did in the Premiership was work hard and do the simple things. Precisely what Johnson is constantly pilloried for. His goalscoring record was never anything to shout about at Premiership level and had he been guaranteed first team football (which is the only reason he went to Leicester) then Bruce would have probably had about three weeks before he was being criticised for the decision. It was the right time for Clemence to move as a player, and I'm glad the club didn't stand in his way and end up with an unhappy player.

Jarosik again, he had plenty of tools to be a top player, but he was on loan. As soon as we went down it was clear to everyone he wasn't going to be interested however much money we threw at him. Championship football with Blues, or Champions League football, and no doubt higher wages, with Celtic. There's no choice there for anyone who isn't a die hard Bluenose. Had we stayed up then maybe, just maybe, we could've tempted him with a short term contract for another season, but we'll never know.
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Prem_Noob
Paul Tait
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why should jarosik care - he was shipped out to birmingham as chelsea didnt want him but he was our leading goalscorer and depsite his attitude scored some important goals- christ the bloke said publically he didnt want to be at birmingham fighting relegation - i dont think i would too if i came all the way from russia to fight at the bottom of the league

this is why i despise how we bring in players on loan - they dont care if we get relegated - they still have their contract and they still go back to their club who holds their registration



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morrisonisclass
Geoff Horsfield
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the best centre midfield player we have had for ages who could get forward and score goals and link the play was DARREN CARTER! yes peopel might say welll look at him now, but at the time when he came back for that viler game from then until end of the season he chipped in with 5 goals , and always drove forward into the opposition box. What happend? we sell him to our local rivals ! that imo was one of brucies biggest mistakes and no-one has really ever mentioned it.
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Lucky
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Bob Latchford
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what old Cloughie did was make players believe they were much better than they were,he took very ordinary players and instilled a winning mentality into them ,
some of his methods he could not get away with today,
BUT HE ALWAYS SAID FOOTBALL WAS A SIMPLE GAME,
PLAY PLAYERS WHERE THEY WERE COMFORTABLE AND GET THEM TO GIVE 100% EVERY GAME,
if you then got beat it was usually because the other team was better on the day,
see football is simple.
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bcfcno1fan
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Alex Govan
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This is what always confuses me, we don't go out attacking against teams we should be beat, like the Sunderlands, and the Derbys of the division, we play the same defensive minded formation.

Doesn't make sense to me, as im sure with a change of tactics during games we should win, we would win alot more than we do..

Playing the same way against Derby at home and Chelsea away doesnt make sense IMO...


Up the Blues **thumbup
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kmmmn
Steve Claridge
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I for one am so disappointed. When Brucie said he had learned from his mistakes, I thouhgt we had seen the back of negative play. It is going to be nigh on impossible for us not to concede in games - the quality of the prem is at another level compared to even 2 seasons ago; even mid-table teams have several top players to bolster their ranks. Playing for 0-0 draws is a recipe for going down.

The 2 defensive central mids is killing us - many have stated this already. There is no support for the front 2. You could see on Saturday, the plan was get it to Jerome and Fors and hope for the best - well, 2v4 did not work. And it won't. Not in this league. FORSELL is I think our most lively player, but you can already see his confidence ebbing away. This has been a pettern under Bruce - it doesn't matter who plays up front, they will not score goals under this system of play. Maybe Kapo can help unlock defences for us - but not when he's playing wide. I would at least like to see hm play in the middle - try it Brucie, what have you got to lose?

It doesn't help that we did not pursue enough good players that became available in the transfer window. Think of how many players traded clubs that we didn't pursue. We certainly lacked ambition and I think in all honesty the board is expecting relegation and hoping to sell before the inevitable happens. I fear the lack of quality in the team, and the lack of adventure when we play means this will be one of the most frustraing and dire seasons in my 40 yrs as a fan.

I say this not in the wake of us losing some games, but in the manner of the defeats. I have seen all of the games except Sunderland. With the exception of the Derby game we have looked dire. Chealsea should have caned us, Boro too, and even West Ham looked like they were playing a team in a lower division. Not sure what else to say really. The tactics and personnel are not collectively good enough for us to stay up. End of.
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