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Uniting Fans.....
Topic Started: Sep 4 2007, 07:30 PM (727 Views)
Bluediver
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Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'.

Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'.

While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge.

This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps.

Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope, return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of.

Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option?

:ph43r:
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Ibstockblue
Bob Hatton
[ *  *  *  * ]
Bluediver
Sep 4 2007, 07:30 PM
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'.

Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'.

While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge.

This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps.

Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope, return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of.

Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option?

:ph43r:

About the worst reason to get rid of amanager I have ever heard
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Willie
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Willie
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bluediver
Sep 4 2007, 08:30 PM
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'.

Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'.

While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge.

This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps.

Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope, return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of.

Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option?

:ph43r:

I think you have missed a catergory of supporter out of you're unity plea.

those are the supporters who care not who the manager is, they don't really care who the board members are or even how much money they have.

They support the team. and if truth be known there are far more of those supporters than any other. yet a lot of those supporters are being driven away by the few.

You call for unity there is one common thing that should unite everyone. the squad of players the represent Birmingham City football club. If people have made a decision not to go because of who manages the club thats ok i am sure the club will survive, and as the saying goes "they will need it before it needs them"

Those that have called for more time for the manager are in many ways as guilty as those who want his head.

Do you honestly think whatever you say no matter what "camp" you're in its going to make the slightest difference. whatever decisions are made regarding the manager or board will be made by the people who have the power to make them regardless of what anyone else thinks.

anyone who thinks otherwise may be in need of a reality check.






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Prem_Noob
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
good post willie

i agree with you

no point moaning anymore - if you feel so strongly about it then dont go :)

I support the team but I dont agree with the manager or board so why should they have my money !
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Bluediver
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Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
baron von bluenose
Sep 4 2007, 09:39 PM
got some info that says sb may not be around soon,i asked willie if i could post it but he didnt get back to me.

Is there any difference between your info on SB and transfer speculation, that gets posted all the time?
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Ibstockblue
Bob Hatton
[ *  *  *  * ]
Prem_Noob
Sep 4 2007, 09:04 PM
good post willie

i agree with you

no point moaning anymore - if you feel so strongly about it then dont go :)

I support the team but I dont agree with the manager or board so why should they have my money !

So does this mean you dont go anymore?
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Willie
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Willie
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
baron von bluenose
Sep 4 2007, 10:39 PM
got some info that says sb may not be around soon,i asked willie if i could post it but he didnt get back to me.

Your pm was regarding SB's private life, nothing to do with his managerial position. I passed on your PM to the relevevant person who still looking into it. hence no answer to your pm yet.
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tevets
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Willie
Sep 4 2007, 09:01 PM
Bluediver
Sep 4 2007, 08:30 PM
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'.

Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'.

While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them  find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge.

This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps.

Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope,  return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of.

Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option?

:ph43r:

I think you have missed a catergory of supporter out of you're unity plea.

those are the supporters who care not who the manager is, they don't really care who the board members are or even how much money they have.

They support the team. and if truth be known there are far more of those supporters than any other. yet a lot of those supporters are being driven away by the few.

You call for unity there is one common thing that should unite everyone. the squad of players the represent Birmingham City football club. If people have made a decision not to go because of who manages the club thats ok i am sure the club will survive, and as the saying goes "they will need it before it needs them"

Those that have called for more time for the manager are in many ways as guilty as those who want his head.

Do you honestly think whatever you say no matter what "camp" you're in its going to make the slightest difference. whatever decisions are made regarding the manager or board will be made by the people who have the power to make them regardless of what anyone else thinks.

anyone who thinks otherwise may be in need of a reality check.

I agree, whatever "camp" people are in its not going to make the slightest difference over the decisions that are made regarding the manager or board. I think this is a large part of the reason why so many are disgruntled, a large portion of the ‘customers’ are ignored.

However big the hardcore element is, who will turn up come what may, it is not big enough to grow the club, or even sustain it in the top flight. The club has to try to attract new ‘customers’ and pander / listen to the ‘floating shopper’. However distasteful that may be to some.
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Willie
Member Avatar
Willie
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
tevets
Sep 4 2007, 11:14 PM
Willie
Sep 4 2007, 09:01 PM
Bluediver
Sep 4 2007, 08:30 PM
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'.

Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'.

While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them  find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge.

This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps.

Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope,  return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of.

Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option?

:ph43r:

I think you have missed a catergory of supporter out of you're unity plea.

those are the supporters who care not who the manager is, they don't really care who the board members are or even how much money they have.

They support the team. and if truth be known there are far more of those supporters than any other. yet a lot of those supporters are being driven away by the few.

You call for unity there is one common thing that should unite everyone. the squad of players the represent Birmingham City football club. If people have made a decision not to go because of who manages the club thats ok i am sure the club will survive, and as the saying goes "they will need it before it needs them"

Those that have called for more time for the manager are in many ways as guilty as those who want his head.

Do you honestly think whatever you say no matter what "camp" you're in its going to make the slightest difference. whatever decisions are made regarding the manager or board will be made by the people who have the power to make them regardless of what anyone else thinks.

anyone who thinks otherwise may be in need of a reality check.

I agree, whatever "camp" people are in its not going to make the slightest difference over the decisions that are made regarding the manager or board. I think this is a large part of the reason why so many are disgruntled, a large portion of the ‘customers’ are ignored.

However big the hardcore element is, who will turn up come what may, it is not big enough to grow the club, or even sustain it in the top flight. The club has to try to attract new ‘customers’ and pander / listen to the ‘floating shopper’. However distasteful that may be to some.

Quote:
 
I agree, whatever "camp" people are in its not going to make the slightest difference over the decisions that are made regarding the manager or board. I think this is a large part of the reason why so many are disgruntled, a large portion of the ‘customers’ are ignored.


Surely if the volumes of disgruntled customers are as high as you claim this would be evident at games especially at St Andrews, yet but apart from the odd bout of booing there is nothing.

Quote:
 

However big the hardcore element is, who will turn up come what may, it is not big enough to grow the club, or even sustain it in the top flight. The club has to try to attract new ‘customers’ and pander / listen to the ‘floating shopper’. However distasteful that may be to some.



Is it not more likely that the supporters who have no foot in either camp are more likely to encourage new supporters as they have no axe to grind nor are they taken in by the clubs pr speak. they see things for what they are and as such will encourage others to support the team regardless of what a minority may want.
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tevets
Geoff Horsfield
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Willie
Sep 5 2007, 06:26 AM
Quote:
 
I agree, whatever "camp" people are in its not going to make the slightest difference over the decisions that are made regarding the manager or board. I think this is a large part of the reason why so many are disgruntled, a large portion of the ‘customers’ are ignored.


Surely if the volumes of disgruntled customers are as high as you claim this would be evident at games especially at St Andrews, yet but apart from the odd bout of booing there is nothing.

Quote:
 

However big the hardcore element is, who will turn up come what may, it is not big enough to grow the club, or even sustain it in the top flight. The club has to try to attract new ‘customers’ and pander / listen to the ‘floating shopper’. However distasteful that may be to some.



Is it not more likely that the supporters who have no foot in either camp are more likely to encourage new supporters as they have no axe to grind nor are they taken in by the clubs pr speak. they see things for what they are and as such will encourage others to support the team regardless of what a minority may want.

I never put a figure on how many are disgruntled nor by how much. It obviously is a problem though because three or four years ago we had full houses and a waiting list for season tickets. Now we can’t sell more than 13000 season tickets and we are averaging around low twenties on the gates, which is around 25% down on our previous attendances.

I would also say that even though there haven’t been mass demonstrations yet the atmosphere and the comments around the ground is totally different. There is more booing and frustration and there are far more comments directed at the manager and rest of the club. As you would think most of the ‘moaners’ no longer go the hardcore is not exactly ecstatic about things.

M&S lost its way by not listening to their customers. They were left with just the hardcore and lost a lot of money and market share which has taken them a very long time, hard work and heartache to get back. The gate size shows there is not enough hardcore and to wait for them to ‘spread the word’ is going to take a very long time. I think you also have to question the performance of the owners if all they can attract is the customers who would turn up whatever.
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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the way to get more people in imo is to radically reduce the prices for all categories. this won't happen whilst so many people are making so much money. in short, salary capping/wage controls and redirection of the wealth for the wider good of the game, to include supporters.
this sort of divisive stuff is being seen at most clubs outside the top 4 and it has little to do with who is manager/chairman imo...
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tevets
Geoff Horsfield
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proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 08:55 AM
the way to get more people in imo is to radically reduce the prices for all categories. this won't happen whilst so many people are making so much money. in short, salary capping/wage controls and redirection of the wealth for the wider good of the game, to include supporters.
this sort of divisive stuff is being seen at most clubs outside the top 4 and it has little to do with who is manager/chairman imo...

I agree in part that the general decline is football related rather than just Blues. However, the current situation with us is making things worse.

We really don't have any purpose or much to be optimistic about at the moment. The team is struggling, the board are trying to get out and certain members have been openly hostile to supporters, the a reasonable portion of the fans feel their views are ignored, not to mention the manager is carrying a huge burdened of doubt.

If we could do something about some of that I am sure gates and atmosphere would improve.


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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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tevets
Sep 5 2007, 10:09 AM
The team is struggling, the board are trying to get out and certain members have been openly hostile to supporters

we're 5 games in ffs, where does all the perspective go? 3 games ago people thought we'd be finishing top 10 - 2 games later we're facing extinction. somewhere between the two lies the truth
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bornblues64
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
tevets
Sep 5 2007, 09:09 AM
proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 08:55 AM
the way to get more people in imo is to radically reduce the prices for all categories. this won't happen whilst so many people are making so much money. in short, salary capping/wage controls and redirection of the wealth for the wider good of the game, to include supporters.
this sort of divisive stuff is being seen at most clubs outside the top 4 and it has little to do with who is manager/chairman imo...

I agree in part that the general decline is football related rather than just Blues. However, the current situation with us is making things worse.

We really don't have any purpose or much to be optimistic about at the moment. The team is struggling, the board are trying to get out and certain members have been openly hostile to supporters, the a reasonable portion of the fans feel their views are ignored, not to mention the manager is carrying a huge burdened of doubt.

If we could do something about some of that I am sure gates and atmosphere would improve.

Didnt exactly the same happen at Vile Park, the owner had served his time, they had a mickey mouse manager who was taking them nowhere, their fans got very restless and fair play to them in my eyes, then in came a new owner, new manager and new ideas,

Now the Vile have the kind of optimism and atmosphere in their ground that Blues once had.

Their fans were very restless and stood up and said so, i hate to say it but fair play to them, the same scenario is what Blues have at the moment,

With Carson Yeung coming in i think it will bring back that sense of optimism again because surely he wont put up with anything less than improvement on the playing side and thats whats needed

You can carp on all day about high prices etc etc for as long as you like but a fresh manager and new ideas are needed on the playing side of it.

Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
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bornblues64
Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.

strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo
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tevets
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
bornblues64
Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.

strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo

I think from a distance Bruce might look a good manager. I think quite a few would revise their opinion if he managed their club and played so many out of position for no reason etc.

This isn’t supposed to be a big dig at Bruce, he is a very nice man who has a lot of good attributes. He is just very lacking in the tactical side of the game which will always hold him back from being a top manager.
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Wisel
Unregistered

Bluediver
Sep 4 2007, 08:30 PM
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'.

Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'.

While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge.

This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps.

Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope, return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of.

Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option?

:ph43r:

I assume this is tongue in cheek and a little mischievous, but to take the point at face value for a while.......I think you miss a significant category of people in your analysis. Those who always moan about everything Blue, and did so with Francis, do so with most players at some time or other. They currently make up part (a fairly large part, but ony part) of the Bruce Out camp for obvious reasons, but for those with long enough memories, they also made up a significant part of the Francis Out group (I have not been on here long enough to know if they also did the same with Barry F), and would presumably take up the same stance with any new manager once he was past the honeymoon period. That is where the lack of support issue arises, people who cannot deal with the thick and thin of football, and turn far too quickly against whoever is in charge of the club, or the players of the club. We have too many so called supporters like that, they influence the club to be weaker than it could be IMHO. My point is not intended as a wind up in any way, and is meant as a serious concern for the health of the club, and something we ourselves could positively influence.
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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Quote:
 
people who cannot deal with the thick and thin of football, and turn far too quickly against whoever is in charge of the club, or the players of the club.

I am not as yet a Bruce outer but I hardly think that 6 years with Bruce in charge equals people turning quickly against him.
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bornblues64
Mikael Forssell
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proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
bornblues64
Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.

strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo

Maybe it is strange indeed maybe the people i speak to are all wrong, i dont know, time will tell.

Maybe its just me but i've never met anyone who says Bruce is a "great" manager in the making.

But as they say its different folk that make the world go round isnt it.
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bornblues64
Mikael Forssell
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Also have to say all this talk of the gap widening etc is a bit strong imo

Its always been hard for a promoted team to stay in their new division since football began i still believe you have the top four, four or five teams that are very good and the rest can beat each other on any given day.

Same goes for all of the leagues and when you look Chelsea and Man.Utd have been beaten already, Arsenal and Liverpool have been held to draws

Surely if they were so far ahead as everybody imagines they would be winning every game and defeat would be out of the question.

Since ive been following football the top teams have all the best players and the rest live on the pickings what really has changed???

the reply of course would be the amount of money involved but its all relative the bigger clubs have always been able to afford the best players.

The way some people talk its as if football is changing beyond all recognition and there are 88 clubs that neednt bother playing the game.
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proserpine
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
tevets
Sep 5 2007, 10:09 AM
The team is struggling, the board are trying to get out and certain members have been openly hostile to supporters

we're 5 games in ffs, where does all the perspective go? 3 games ago people thought we'd be finishing top 10 - 2 games later we're facing extinction. somewhere between the two lies the truth

It isn't about the results in those games proccy. :D
We lost to Chelsea, but the majority were still proud and optimistic.

Its about the way we play. Sunderland started it up again for me, I thought, 'Oh No! I've been here before'.
Middlesborough ? I saw the SKY version and recognised it as the Boro match at St Andrews or the Man City match at St Andrews.

Different players, same lack of commitment same lack of tactical ideas and the same lack of inspiration.

Are we going to be told that some players don't want to play for Brucie - again ? What on earth does he do to them?

No it isn't the results - its the way we play. And we have seen it too many times before, we know here it leads.


:crying:
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proccy_blues
Joe Bradford
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
bornblues64
Sep 5 2007, 11:51 AM
Also have to say all this talk of the gap widening etc is a bit strong imo

sky reported on the spending/earning gap a couple of days ago. one stratling statistic from recent times is, in 2006 5 teams spent in excess of £20m. this season, its 13 so far and rising. how are sheff utd and watford able to compete if there parachute payments get them back up straight away? and if they don't come straight back up, or a club comes up that hasn't had any sky money, what do you think their chances of survival are?

5 years ago there was a 50/50 chance of promoted teams making an impact ie surviving, now it's a minimal chance PROVIDED they still spend £15m or more....mental
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bornblues64
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 11:42 AM
bornblues64
Sep 5 2007, 11:51 AM
Also have to say all this talk of the gap widening etc is a bit strong imo

sky reported on the spending/earning gap a couple of days ago. one stratling statistic from recent times is, in 2006 5 teams spent in excess of £20m. this season, its 13 so far and rising. how are sheff utd and watford able to compete if there parachute payments get them back up straight away? and if they don't come straight back up, or a club comes up that hasn't had any sky money, what do you think their chances of survival are?

5 years ago there was a 50/50 chance of promoted teams making an impact ie surviving, now it's a minimal chance PROVIDED they still spend £15m or more....mental

Know what you are saying and i agree, it is mental.

But hasnt football always been the same? Ok the figures involved these days are different, but think back to when Forest were at their peak and bought TF for a million, we all thought then that that was crazy and how many other teams then could afford that kind of expense.

In all forms of living the prices are mental, whose house is actually worth what it is valued etc etc

The more things change the more thay stay the same as they say, who would have thought 20 years ago Blues would be buying players for 4-5 million which has happened?

I just dont think things are as bad as these reports make out. Imo of course
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bcfcno1fan
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Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
tevets
Sep 5 2007, 10:09 AM
The team is struggling, the board are trying to get out and certain members have been openly hostile to supporters

we're 5 games in ffs, where does all the perspective go? 3 games ago people thought we'd be finishing top 10 - 2 games later we're facing extinction. somewhere between the two lies the truth

What is between extinction and top 10??

Relegation...?? :unsure:

Not impressed by these negative posts tbf........ :whistle: :P :rolleyes:


Up the Blues **thumbup
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salad_dodger
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Paul Tait
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proccysotv
Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
bornblues64
Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.

strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo

Wouldn't a good manager bridge that gap though proccy? this is not a snipe at Bruce, just an open question
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