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Uniting Fans.....
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Topic Started: Sep 4 2007, 07:30 PM (728 Views)
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franscar
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Sep 5 2007, 09:25 PM
Post #26
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Bruce has bridged that gap once. Yes, it is a larger gap now, but it's impossible to tell whether or not it can be bridged or will be bridged after just five matches of the season.
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Willie
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Sep 6 2007, 06:24 AM
Post #27
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- tevets
- Sep 5 2007, 08:54 AM
- Willie
- Sep 5 2007, 06:26 AM
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I agree, whatever "camp" people are in its not going to make the slightest difference over the decisions that are made regarding the manager or board. I think this is a large part of the reason why so many are disgruntled, a large portion of the ‘customers’ are ignored.
Surely if the volumes of disgruntled customers are as high as you claim this would be evident at games especially at St Andrews, yet but apart from the odd bout of booing there is nothing. - Quote:
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However big the hardcore element is, who will turn up come what may, it is not big enough to grow the club, or even sustain it in the top flight. The club has to try to attract new ‘customers’ and pander / listen to the ‘floating shopper’. However distasteful that may be to some.
Is it not more likely that the supporters who have no foot in either camp are more likely to encourage new supporters as they have no axe to grind nor are they taken in by the clubs pr speak. they see things for what they are and as such will encourage others to support the team regardless of what a minority may want.
I never put a figure on how many are disgruntled nor by how much. It obviously is a problem though because three or four years ago we had full houses and a waiting list for season tickets. Now we can’t sell more than 13000 season tickets and we are averaging around low twenties on the gates, which is around 25% down on our previous attendances. I would also say that even though there haven’t been mass demonstrations yet the atmosphere and the comments around the ground is totally different. There is more booing and frustration and there are far more comments directed at the manager and rest of the club. As you would think most of the ‘moaners’ no longer go the hardcore is not exactly ecstatic about things. M&S lost its way by not listening to their customers. They were left with just the hardcore and lost a lot of money and market share which has taken them a very long time, hard work and heartache to get back. The gate size shows there is not enough hardcore and to wait for them to ‘spread the word’ is going to take a very long time. I think you also have to question the performance of the owners if all they can attract is the customers who would turn up whatever.
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I never put a figure on how many are disgruntled nor by how much. It obviously is a problem though because three or four years ago we had full houses and a waiting list for season tickets. Now we can’t sell more than 13000 season tickets and we are averaging around low twenties on the gates, which is around 25% down on our previous attendances.
Its obvious there is a problem with attracting people to the games , but to to say that is all down to the manager,board,would be wrong, i would hazard a guess at the main reason for such a drop is the price, and the fact that since our last promotion a lot of people have lost their jobs. and although some are back in employment thier work commitments / finances do not make purchasing ST's a viable option. Yes there are those that will not attend whilst the present management regime is in control and that is thier choice. If you check the attendance figures for the last 4/5 years you will notice a decline after our 1st season in the prem.
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I would also say that even though there haven’t been mass demonstrations yet the atmosphere and the comments around the ground is totally different. There is more booing and frustration and there are far more comments directed at the manager and rest of the club. As you would think most of the ‘moaners’ no longer go the hardcore is not exactly ecstatic about things.
The atmsophere has been poor apart from big games for many years. The comments around the ground again have been there for many years, the frustration and booing is aimed at who ?? imo the players, i have said before the treatment some players recieve from the fans is appaling"ie" Bendtner being one. the latest is Kapo maybe he is the next one to be singled out.
Did i say moaners ?? don't think so i said those who have chosen not to go.
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proccy_blues
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Sep 6 2007, 06:29 AM
Post #28
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- salad_dodger
- Sep 5 2007, 09:41 PM
- proccysotv
- Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
- bornblues64
- Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.
strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo
Wouldn't a good manager bridge that gap though proccy? this is not a snipe at Bruce, just an open question
the gap isn't bridgeable without spending in excess of £20m at least and then that's no guarantee is it? if clubs getting promoted are guaranteed, say, £30m then if i was chairman i'd say spend the lot provided it did not compromise the clubs' operational capability. out of that £30m you would have to put at least a third aside for salaries of new players if not more.
it is never down to one man imo, the whole philosophy of footy is the team concept. no single person is responsible for success, no single person is responsible for failure.
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tevets
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Sep 6 2007, 08:08 AM
Post #29
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- Willie
- Sep 6 2007, 06:24 AM
Its obvious there is a problem with attracting people to the games , but to to say that is all down to the manager,board,would be wrong, i would hazard a guess at the main reason for such a drop is the price, and the fact that since our last promotion a lot of people have lost their jobs. and although some are back in employment thier work commitments / finances do not make purchasing ST's a viable option. Yes there are those that will not attend whilst the present management regime is in control and that is thier choice. If you check the attendance figures for the last 4/5 years you will notice a decline after our 1st season in the prem.
So whose fault is it?
If something is failing or having problems it is generally accepted that the owners / managers have to change things. Of course there will be outside influences but unless the club makes the changes to counteract these influences and to attract new business you just die slowly.
As to the price is this not set by the club? Who forces us to charge as much as we do? This is wholly a club issue, many other clubs charge less. A lot of people don't mind paying a premium for quality but I don't think you can accuse us of being top quality from facilities to the football.
For the atmosphere, gates and general doom and gloom to change it has to be from the top. You or I can’t change anything and no one fan can. Even a mass demonstration will have no impact unless the board are willing to make changes, Doug Ellis showed the world that.
All that is going to happen until steps are take to improve things is supporters will continue to drift away until there is just the hardcore left. Maybe we have reached that point but I doubt it.
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The_Bear
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Sep 6 2007, 09:01 AM
Post #30
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But things can change! With the right changes and investment in the team and the ground we could start winning where we are drawing and drawing where we are losing. That would lead to a good position in the league, cup runs and even cup success. The crowds would return to fill the redeveloped areas of the ground so more income would be coming in from the fans, further income from the final position in the league, the cup runs and (Please god) a cup final. Merchandising would start selling world wide (bringing in more money) and the fan base world wide would also increase. Possible runs in European comps with foreign teams visiting St A's and capacity crowds with people getting disappointed because of the lack of tickets etc etc. Now that is not impossible with the right backing.
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Deleted User
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Sep 6 2007, 10:23 AM
Post #31
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Deleted User
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I agree that the prices are too high, but surely the main reason we're having trouble filling the ground is the dross we're serving up on the pitch? Not just this season either, this is not a new problem. As for this season so far......
Played well at Chelsea? I don't think so. Sunderland and West Ham we were poor despite all the excuses, a win at Derby followed by an atrocious performance at Middlesbrough. In between that we had a Hereford side that were perhaps a bit unlucky to lose based on their 2nd half performance, with Kingson making some fine saves.
My plan is very simple. Our manager should be relieved of his duties - I don't think he has the tactical nous to be a top football manager, he is very one dimensional, constantly plays people out of position, we really don't look like we've got a clue going forward. I swear we played better football under Terry Cooper in the 3rd division.
The previous poster said "Please God, a cup final". Well it wasn't that long ago we were in one as a 2nd division club, it's not all about massive investment.
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bornblues64
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Sep 6 2007, 10:41 AM
Post #32
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- proccysotv
- Sep 6 2007, 06:29 AM
- salad_dodger
- Sep 5 2007, 09:41 PM
- proccysotv
- Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
- bornblues64
- Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.
strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo
Wouldn't a good manager bridge that gap though proccy? this is not a snipe at Bruce, just an open question
the gap isn't bridgeable without spending in excess of £20m at least and then that's no guarantee is it? if clubs getting promoted are guaranteed, say, £30m then if i was chairman i'd say spend the lot provided it did not compromise the clubs' operational capability. out of that £30m you would have to put at least a third aside for salaries of new players if not more. it is never down to one man imo, the whole philosophy of footy is the team concept. no single person is responsible for success, no single person is responsible for failure.
How come Reading bridged the gap???
Therefore achieving the impossible.
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franscar
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Sep 6 2007, 11:16 AM
Post #33
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Reading rode the crest of a wave last season, much like Bues did in the first couple of seasons up. Premiership football was a novelty to their fans and they were doing their damndest to enjoy it. Unfortunately for a multitude of reasons the wave didn't return to St. Andrews last April/May when we made the final push. It came close on a couple of occasions (Bendtner's goal against Southampton that should've killed the game, Larsson's goal against Wednesday that did kill the game) but there was always a determination it seems to keep the accolades for the team, the manager, everyone, to the absolute minimum.
I think Charlton, Sheffield United and Watford this season will highlight what an achievement it was for both Blues and Sunderland to bounce straight back. Unfortunately, I doubt Brucey will ever receive the credit he was due for his part in that until he has departed.
Reading this season will struggle. The novelty is gone and the investment in the summer was minimal.
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proccy_blues
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Sep 6 2007, 02:53 PM
Post #34
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- bornblues64
- Sep 6 2007, 11:41 AM
- proccysotv
- Sep 6 2007, 06:29 AM
- salad_dodger
- Sep 5 2007, 09:41 PM
- proccysotv
- Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
- bornblues64
- Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.
strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo
Wouldn't a good manager bridge that gap though proccy? this is not a snipe at Bruce, just an open question
the gap isn't bridgeable without spending in excess of £20m at least and then that's no guarantee is it? if clubs getting promoted are guaranteed, say, £30m then if i was chairman i'd say spend the lot provided it did not compromise the clubs' operational capability. out of that £30m you would have to put at least a third aside for salaries of new players if not more. it is never down to one man imo, the whole philosophy of footy is the team concept. no single person is responsible for success, no single person is responsible for failure.
How come Reading bridged the gap??? Therefore achieving the impossible.
the exception that proves the (general) rule.....easily remembered because so infrequently achieved.. ;)
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bornblues64
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Sep 6 2007, 06:01 PM
Post #35
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- proccysotv
- Sep 6 2007, 02:53 PM
- bornblues64
- Sep 6 2007, 11:41 AM
- proccysotv
- Sep 6 2007, 06:29 AM
- salad_dodger
- Sep 5 2007, 09:41 PM
- proccysotv
- Sep 5 2007, 09:27 AM
- bornblues64
- Sep 5 2007, 10:21 AM
Have spoke to a lot of friends who are Bluenoses and a lot that support other teams and all seem to say that the squad with its youth etc looks like it has potential but the manager is no good so you'll go straight back down.
strange that - i dont live in brum and the vast majority of people i speak to reckon us fans are mad and that sb is a great manager in the making. if we go down (and it isn't certain) it's because the gap between the prem and the cc league is growing each season, and in years to come at this rate if you don't go straight back up after relegation you'll never go back up, even less stay there after the miracle of making it...imo
Wouldn't a good manager bridge that gap though proccy? this is not a snipe at Bruce, just an open question
the gap isn't bridgeable without spending in excess of £20m at least and then that's no guarantee is it? if clubs getting promoted are guaranteed, say, £30m then if i was chairman i'd say spend the lot provided it did not compromise the clubs' operational capability. out of that £30m you would have to put at least a third aside for salaries of new players if not more. it is never down to one man imo, the whole philosophy of footy is the team concept. no single person is responsible for success, no single person is responsible for failure.
How come Reading bridged the gap??? Therefore achieving the impossible.
the exception that proves the (general) rule.....easily remembered because so infrequently achieved.. ;)
Blues did it as well dont forget and hopefully will do it again :lager:
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tevets
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Sep 6 2007, 06:11 PM
Post #36
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- franscar
- Sep 6 2007, 11:16 AM
I doubt Brucey will ever receive the credit he was due for his part in that until he has departed.
I think you are right that Bruce won’t get the credit for some things until after he has gone. Isn’t that fair though given he has never really had to suffer the consequences for the poor things he has done.
I also think it is very difficult to really get a perspective of anyone, in context, whilst they are still doing a job.
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bornblues64
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Sep 6 2007, 07:14 PM
Post #37
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- tevets
- Sep 6 2007, 06:11 PM
- franscar
- Sep 6 2007, 11:16 AM
I doubt Brucey will ever receive the credit he was due for his part in that until he has departed.
I think you are right that Bruce won’t get the credit for some things until after he has gone. Isn’t that fair though given he has never really had to suffer the consequences for the poor things he has done. I also think it is very difficult to really get a perspective of anyone, in context, whilst they are still doing a job.
Thats life, like all of us if we do 100 things right in our jobs and then make 1 mistake we are always remembered for making the mistake.
The trick is to learn from the mistake which is Bruceys downfall because he doesnt learn from his mistakes.
Nobody elses fault but his own.
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Chelms
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Sep 6 2007, 07:16 PM
Post #38
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- Willie
- Sep 4 2007, 09:50 PM
- baron von bluenose
- Sep 4 2007, 10:39 PM
got some info that says sb may not be around soon,i asked willie if i could post it but he didnt get back to me.
Your pm was regarding SB's private life, nothing to do with his managerial position. I passed on your PM to the relevevant person who still looking into it. hence no answer to your pm yet.
isnt that called voyerism ?? :lager:
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chudlt
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Sep 6 2007, 07:54 PM
Post #39
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- Bluediver
- Sep 4 2007, 07:30 PM
Seems to me that there are broadly two opinions on Bruce: 'Give him more time' or 'Get rid now'. Those who say that we should give him more time often pride themselves on how supportive they are of the manager, and by implication the club. They are the supporters who will continue to support the club come what may. They are at St Andrews week in week out. In the past they proclaimed themselves to be 'true supporters'. While many of the 'Bruce out' crowd also behave similarly, it seems a proportion of them find it difficult to get excited about Bruce's football, and presumeably adversley affect the atmosphere at St Andrews with their misery, and another proportion apparently wont go to St Andrews while he is still in charge. This message board regularly sees clashes between these two camps. Seems to me that if Bruce were sacked, those who supported him throughout would show his successor the same loyalty, because that's the type of supporters they are. True supporters. And those who are dispondent or stay away would find new hope, return in droves to St Andrews and help create an atmosphere we could all be proud of. Irrespective of his record and his perceived abilities, surely getting rid of Bruce would ultimately unite fans, and for that reason alone is the best option? :ph43r:
Can I take it you don't support him then ..zz.. ..zz.. ..zz..
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Willie
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Sep 6 2007, 08:18 PM
Post #40
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- tevets
- Sep 6 2007, 09:08 AM
- Willie
- Sep 6 2007, 06:24 AM
Its obvious there is a problem with attracting people to the games , but to to say that is all down to the manager,board,would be wrong, i would hazard a guess at the main reason for such a drop is the price, and the fact that since our last promotion a lot of people have lost their jobs. and although some are back in employment thier work commitments / finances do not make purchasing ST's a viable option. Yes there are those that will not attend whilst the present management regime is in control and that is thier choice. If you check the attendance figures for the last 4/5 years you will notice a decline after our 1st season in the prem.
So whose fault is it? If something is failing or having problems it is generally accepted that the owners / managers have to change things. Of course there will be outside influences but unless the club makes the changes to counteract these influences and to attract new business you just die slowly. As to the price is this not set by the club? Who forces us to charge as much as we do? This is wholly a club issue, many other clubs charge less. A lot of people don't mind paying a premium for quality but I don't think you can accuse us of being top quality from facilities to the football. For the atmosphere, gates and general doom and gloom to change it has to be from the top. You or I can’t change anything and no one fan can. Even a mass demonstration will have no impact unless the board are willing to make changes, Doug Ellis showed the world that. All that is going to happen until steps are take to improve things is supporters will continue to drift away until there is just the hardcore left. Maybe we have reached that point but I doubt it.
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If something is failing or having problems it is generally accepted that the owners / managers have to change things. Of course there will be outside influences but unless the club makes the changes to counteract these influences and to attract new business you just die slowly.
Apologies i got my seasons mixed up our highest avaerage was infact for our 2nd season.
http://www.european-football-statistics.co...tnclub/birc.htm
In the time span from 2003 to date bcfc have lost on average 6000 fans, Sunderland some 8000 wba about 6000 wolves about 5000 Bolton 2000 Derby about 500
You see its not only blues that are losing fans, you can varify the figures if you wish. check the prices of those teams they are not too different to ours.
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As to the price is this not set by the club? Who forces us to charge as much as we do? This is wholly a club issue, many other clubs charge less. A lot of people don't mind paying a premium for quality but I don't think you can accuse us of being top quality from facilities to the football
As i said above those teams charge similar amounts for games, have those fans had a premium quality product to watch?
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For the atmosphere, gates and general doom and gloom to change it has to be from the top. You or I can’t change anything and no one fan can. Even a mass demonstration will have no impact unless the board are willing to make changes, Doug Ellis showed the world that.
Doom and Gloom are a state of mind, Surely the mindset of the fans has to change from one of blaming the club for everything to one of support and encouragement. the club does make horrendous errors there is no denying that. but its not all bad, but some have decided that no matter what, the club is wrong and nothing will alter thier view. so taking that on it would appear that no matter what changes the club may contemplate making would it make a difference? ive have said before that the club could give the tickets away and people would still complain.
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