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| Alex Mcleish; The pros and cons | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 22 2008, 11:37 AM (950 Views) | |
| Ian | Sep 23 2008, 08:50 AM Post #26 |
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Alex Govan
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Hmm Roy Aitkin i have no argument with however you focus Purely on Negatives. Its like :banghead: I don't think he's perfect and i don't think he ever will be however i do believe that we will get more good games from MacLeish than bad i also think without a shadow of a doubt that we are better off without Bruce. I look at it like this we have played 7 won 5 drew 1 lost 1, i want pretty football but i wont swap it for results. Have a drink Lowdham and just enjoy not having to scan to the bottom of the table to look for our league position **thumbup |
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| Ian | Sep 23 2008, 09:00 AM Post #27 |
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Alex Govan
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Yes lets base the opinion of how we think our manager performs off the back of one defeat. I just shown some colleagues that statement and this thread and we are laughing at you. I don't think you realise how ridiculous you sound knocking the manger whilst where 2nd in the table with 7 games gone and 1 defeat :LMAO: I'll put my money where my mouth is, I'll put 20 quid on us being promoted. If you believe were that poor thats not going to happen is it? You put 20 quid on us not being promoted and we'll see at the end of the season who was the wiser :Blues: Keep taking the pills Ian |
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| franscar | Sep 23 2008, 10:23 AM Post #28 |
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Mikael Forssell
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I can't speak for others, but I took my observations over the entirety of the McLeish era to date, and there have been a number of games in which our more creative players have failed to make any sort of impact on the game. Just taking the important "six pointers" from the back end of last season against Wigan, Sunderland, Reading, Fulham and Derby. Five matches in which we scored twice, and lost four times. These were the key battles for both the players and McLeish, and we didn't manage a performance in any of them. So my concern, which I think is shared by a fair number, is will McLeish be able to drag performances out of the team against the "lesser" clubs in this division? I'm pretty confident that we will get positive results in the majority of our games against the likes of Wolves, Reading, QPR etc., but it is the likes of Blackpool and Forest that worry. |
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| Albert T | Sep 23 2008, 11:39 AM Post #29 |
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Jose Dominguez
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The Jury's still out for me. Initially I thought he was a tremendous appointment but now I'm not as sure. We've had some great passages of play interspersed with some performances that have been as bad as I think Blues have ever been. I do question if he's instilling enough passion and fire into the team. I think his record in the transfer market is sound. We've not solved the centre-half problem but I'd prefer to think he took a look at all the likely candidates in the market he was operating in and decided that nobody was any better than we already have. To me that shows sound judgement. Too often over our recent past we've paniced in the transfer market and bought in a slew of players for the sake of it that haven't improved the team. As for Palcois and De Ridder, I think with Palcois he was forced into making a snap decision about a player who through unfortunate circumstance he'd barely had a chance to see play. Of course in hindsight he should've signed him permantley but I can well understand why at the time he felt he couldn't. And as for De Ridder, I just don't think he rated him for whatever reason. It's worth pointing out that despite signing him twice in 2 years Bruce has hardly played him either. Though I do think we should've held out for a fee for him. I have wondered over the last few months whether or not he's totally settled at the club. I don't know whether or not it's just his manner but to hear him talk and to observe him on the sidelines I'm not seeing a man totally committed to the club. I do wonder if he's finding life at Blues not as it said it would be in the brochure. The history of the game is littered with good managers who have failed at clubs because they were at the wrong club at the wrong time and at times I think we might be seeing the same with Alex Mac. |
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| Blusteve | Sep 23 2008, 12:09 PM Post #30 |
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Jose Dominguez
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There used to be a time when we went one nil down that the fans would get behind them and spur them onto a goal,and we used to accept that we would lose occasionally. All we do now is boo, what use is that to the lads while theyre playing?I was disgusted with the booing on Saturday. Im not suprised if McLeish is having a tough time of it fighting a constant battle with fans attitudes, likewise for the players who need some encouragement instead of constant and moaning from the crowd. |
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| bluess7 | Sep 23 2008, 01:33 PM Post #31 |
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Frank Worthington
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I didn't boo on Saturday, infact very rarely ever have......can only really remember the DJ shirt throwing! However, I can understand it.......we live in a society where results matter (Ian99 has as much said he wouldn't swap performances for results) and all else pails into comparison. Now of course winning is the whole point of playing, the ultimate aim if you like, but as football is also a major spectator sport, fans actually have to have something to watch..............we have had far more in common with the Wimbledon sides of old than more fans would care to admit. I didn't have a great knowledge of AMc before he signed, other than his Scotland games and two or three games a season when in charge of Rangers.......so was quite pleased to hear a majority of fans enthusing about his football philosophy, how he plays a fast flowing attacking game...........so where's it been?? The team hasn't gelled I hear fans shout.........Wolves have had as many changes as us, if not more, yet are going to be promoted by Xmas the way they're going (joke before you all start!).........but I think you get the meaning. What could Sean O'Driscoll do with the players we have? Players with infinite more skill than his own crop, yet the very same players that his team gave the run around for the most part and would maybe of had a different result given some classier forwards. I think overall, he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory, his tactics since taking over have been poor and his signings and or the lack of haven't exactly been inspiring with the exception of one or two. He needs to get a grip of this lot and start training them better and if certain players are still sulking, he needs to drop them and play those who are not. He also needs to make use of the loan system and bring a bit of flair into the team.........he needs to put Seb back on the wing and try playing with a settled team. I hear people saying "judge him at the end of the season", but if that means finishing outside the playoffs for instance, don't these same people think it will be too late by then? And five wins from seven just doesn't tell the story........you never find mention of luck in the record books!! |
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| Albert T | Sep 23 2008, 02:22 PM Post #32 |
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Jose Dominguez
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| wardendbluenose | Sep 23 2008, 04:30 PM Post #33 |
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Alex Govan
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McLeish found a decent left back within 6 weeks of been here. This is a work in progress, it will come together eventually. |
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| Joe | Sep 23 2008, 04:56 PM Post #34 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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Yeah, tell the board you would like Kitson or Roberts and they give you 500k for Bent. That is the root cause of Eck's problems, some of Bruce's problems towards the end etc etc Same for every manager in the future until the board go As for Sean O'Driscoll, maybe he would have got us failing to score against 10 men for 70 minutes despite having all of the ball. Eck is the right man for the job but he needs to be given the money, not frees, loans etc. The basis of Wolves team has been together for longer and they are CCC regulars, they have not just been relegated and have a new manager. We lose one game when everyone played badly and it's as if Eck has got to go. Are we already trying to hound out a manager who has yet had a full season in the job and inherited a squad not good enough and found out that his employers have no ambition? |
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| gene autry | Sep 23 2008, 07:03 PM Post #35 |
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Alex Govan
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I'm all in favour of McCleish. If people can't remember Bruce playing 4-5-1 at home match after match, it must prove they didn't attend many matches but just watched the TV. We do switch formations a bit, I will admit, but I think that is the manager trying to get the players to move forward in terms of perception and adaptability - my worry about that is you can probably do it at Arsenal or Chelsea etc, but are the Championship level players we have, really of that standard. I think he wants an adaptability from some players during the course of a game and it doesn't always seem to work. But it will come and it will make better players of them in the long run.imo. Some of the "reserved" judgements about McCleish may be tempered by our league position. I think the death-eaters would be more straightforward about their views if we were at the other end of the table. The point being is that with these players, McCleish is getting results.Behind the scenes he was re-structured and rebuilt in areas that Bruce probably didn't know about. And for every desperate hoofball I've seen these last dozen games, I've seen about thirty times more under Bruce. So I am content and not worried about MCleish. Because I saw what went before and he is an immeasurable improvement imo. :D |
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| pooley | Sep 23 2008, 08:07 PM Post #36 |
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The Icon
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too much emphasis is put on the manager, if the 11 men on the pitch are all having a bad day then he can play ther best players and the best formation but it aint gonna get you anywhere |
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| Ian | Sep 23 2008, 08:56 PM Post #37 |
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Alex Govan
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Quality mate, people seem to think the players are puppets and the manager pulls the strings. |
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| Deleted User | Sep 23 2008, 09:29 PM Post #38 |
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Nobody's blaming him for Zarate leaving, but I think it would have made sense to play him a bit more. |
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| beegeeblueboy | Sep 23 2008, 09:33 PM Post #39 |
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Bob Latchford
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Spot on - Aitken is the problem. Wasn't he V_i_l_l_a_'_s coach during the years we whooped them? |
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| bluess7 | Sep 23 2008, 11:25 PM Post #40 |
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Frank Worthington
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Whilst you are entitled to your opinion, the Wolves have lost and replaced six players this season.....over half a team!! The point was already made in my post that O'Driscoll only lacked the neccessary finishing power in his team, but for the time the sides were equal.......his side knew how to pass the little round about.....ours didn't! I agree the board are a problem! I'm not sure how you base your theory of AMc being the man for the job..........his experience of this footballing culture is non-existent......he comes from a very different background and whilst he has international experience, it it is a very far cry from the Championship. Nobody is hounding him out, but as paying customers we have a right to query his actions and performance, which whilst yielding points.......is far from a bed of roses. |
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| Ian | Sep 24 2008, 07:42 AM Post #41 |
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Alex Govan
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Here is some good background info in MacLeish. http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Pa...~141904,00.html Here is some Hibs stuff i found, it sounds familiar..................... After a downturn in fortunes on the field Jim Duffy's short spell as manager was ended in February 1998 and he was replaced by former Scotland internationalist Alex MacLeish. Alex's late arrival in the season was not enough to stop Hibs finishing bottom of the Premier league and being relegated for only the third time in their history. Following relegation, which was confirmed in a 2-1 home defeat against Dundee United on 2 May 1998, after Grant Brebner had given Hibs a half-time lead, Alex MacLeish had the difficult task of taking Hibernian into the First Division and straight back up again. However, it turned out to be a season to remember. Captained by John ‘Yogi’ Hughes, Hibs went on to enjoy a record-breaking season, which saw the team crowned worthy Champions of the Scottish Football League. The season began with Stranraer recording a victory at Easter Road in Hibs’ first home match of the season and the critics were writing the Club off, but that only served as motivation for the Easter Road players. Alex McLeish expertly handled a diverse squad of players, including stars like Stuart Lovell from Reading, Mixu Paatelainen from Wolves and later, Caribbean star, Russell Latapy. Hibs also signed a European Cup Winner, Frenchman Franck Sauzee, that season and Hibs were soon to become a force to be reckoned with. That was confirmed when Hibs shocked an unbeaten Aberdeen side at Easter Road in the League Cup (1-0) courtesy of a late Stevie Crawford penalty. Throughout that season, Hibs put together an unbeaten sequence of 24 matches, recording a stunning 89 points, scoring 84 goals in the process. And Hibs finished 23 points clear of second placed Falkirk. Thirteen wins on the spin would earn Hibs the right to be back in the Premier League. Hibs romped to the title and the crowning moment witnessed a Latapy double over Hamilton, at Firhill in April 1999. Once back in the top flight, Hibs performed well and finished mid-table in season 1999/2000. Hibs reached the semi-finals of the Scottish Cup that year, only for two late Aberdeen goals to scupper any dreams of lifting silverware. 1999/2000 saw a landmark moment in the Club’s history as we bid farewell to the famous Easter Road slope. Only three years earlier, Hibs were in the First Division. Many people had written off their chances of ever becoming a major force in Scottish football again. However, Alex McLeish took the Easter Road side back to where they belong, and in season 2000/2001, they blasted through the early season, recording six consecutive victories in August, and an unbeaten Hibs side sat proudly at the top of the SPL table. Hibs also reached the final of the Tennent’s Scottish Cup for the first time in 22 years but lost to Celtic at Hampden Park, although a tremendous effort was well-appreciated by the Easter Road faithful, and Hibs went on to secure third place behind the Old Firm, which meant European football was back at Easter Road again. A spine-tingling season of football saw Hibs record a special 6-2 victory over city rivals Hearts at Easter Road. That demolition job on 22 October 2000 was a magnificent effort and a spectacular team performance was capped when Finnish International Mixu Paatelainen grabbed the first ever hat-trick in an Edinburgh derby. That game also saw John O’Neil score his first goal for the Club. A brand new West Stand was completed for the start of season 2001/2002. Hibs also enjoyed European football and the Easter Road Club did themselves proud by almost knocking AEK Athens out of the UEFA Cup. Hibs lost 2-0 in Athens but recorded a 3-2 win at Easter Road (after extra-time). Alex McLeish and Andy Watson departed for Ibrox and fans’ favourite Franck Sauzee was installed as new Club manager. |
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| lowdham bluenose | Sep 24 2008, 08:41 AM Post #42 |
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Joe Bradford
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Interesting reading about his time at Hibs - he performs so well without Aitken. Equally as interesting is David O'Leary's time at Leeds where he enjoyed success, whereas he was a joke at Villa when he teamed up with ..........yes Roy Aitken. Aitken - what do you do? |
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| pooley | Sep 24 2008, 11:53 AM Post #43 |
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The Icon
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whatever he does he maked an....erm....'impact' |
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| Ian | Sep 24 2008, 04:10 PM Post #44 |
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Alex Govan
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That is definitely a very good observation. He was MacLeish's assistant at Scotland though and they did OK there. So his record as coach is Leeds good Vile Bad Scotland good Blues ............ :o |
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| elvis ok | Sep 24 2008, 04:23 PM Post #45 |
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Malcom Page
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The threads about McCleish, not the board. All I've seen so far in this is the flushing out of a few brucies from under their rocks. The criticism of McCleish as so far spouted is trivial beyond belief. Doesn't know his best team? :LMAO: Alright, so O'Connor, Jerome, uncle Tom Cobley have all had injuries and had to be replaced/rotated? Is that indecision? He's trying to make better players of some who find it foreign to go back and help out, but our goals against shows its working, slowly. When McCleish starts to give excuses and not explanations, thats the time to question him, when we lose, and lose and lose.And bore and bore and bore. Been there man, don't want to go back. |
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| franscar | Sep 24 2008, 05:46 PM Post #46 |
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Mikael Forssell
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You've "addressed" one of the above, why not have a go at the rest? Others have managed to provide an opinion without resorting to calling anybody who's sceptical about the new manager a "Brucie". And as for the point you did address, is his first choice left winger McSheffrey or Quincy? Will he favour Kelly or Parnaby? Where is he going to play McFadden? Larsson? Who is his first choice front two? Will we get the stability and continuity necessary to create and develop partnerships with all this chopping and changing? Come on, it's been a good debate so far, it really doesn't need the laughing smileys backed up by very little. |
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| alfred E nueman | Sep 24 2008, 08:12 PM Post #47 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Getting a bit personal frans ? Its not for everyone to deal with your points only - they aren't the Holy Grail. People can address points that other people make surely? We can digress a little.?? I don't see anything wrong in the term brucie, I've seen much worse on here for goodness sake. Grow up frans matey. |
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| demood | Sep 24 2008, 09:51 PM Post #48 |
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Frank Worthington
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Well i have made my mind up get him out asap he is hopeles in my opinion. he couldn`t lace Brucies boots who is respected trough out the premier. |
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| franscar | Sep 24 2008, 10:04 PM Post #49 |
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Mikael Forssell
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I have no problem with people making their own points or addressing each others, but his post did neither. And it certainly isn't about my view being law and nobody elses mattering, Bluediver made a quality post on the first page even though it was more or less the polar opposite of how I have seen things, it was very well written and there wasn't a needless dig in sight. It's been a good discussion so far with people contributing a great deal, it doesn't need to descend into the sort of cheap jibes that so many others do. But if someone comes along and merely suggests that any criticism of McLeish is "trivial" and doesn't offer any kind of reasoning behind it, well, surely one is entitled to ask for a bit more? |
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| bluess7 | Sep 24 2008, 10:21 PM Post #50 |
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Frank Worthington
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:applause: :applause: :applause: |
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