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Stretching The Play; How to beat ordinary Championship teams
Topic Started: Sep 22 2008, 01:14 PM (715 Views)
willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Most teams are going to come to St.Andrews this season and will simply be happy to get a point from the game. They'll defend stoutly and we are the ones who will have to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

From what I can see, in all home matches this season, we don't stretch teams enough by using the channels down the wings.

If you watch the Wolves so far this season - who are averaging 3 goals a game - they have quick wide players (Kightly and Jarvis) who constantly try to get past their man down the wing and often stand on the touchline waiting for a chance to run at someone.

The problem with playing McSheffrey is that he always drifts inside to receive the ball - giving Murphy no real option to play forward - resulting in a pass sideward or backward. It gets to a point where we effectively play in half a pitch! Even with Quincy, he's a bit adverse to going on the outside and whipping in a dangerous cross.

Wolves also have David Jones in the centre of the park, who gives a good quality attacking touch on the ball and loves to get into the opposition's box.

For their second goal against Preston, when Kightly whipped the cross in, Wolves had FOUR gold shirts all trying to get on the end of the ball - including Jones who had made an intelligent run as a disguise for Iwelumo's dash to the near post from which he scored.

We've got much better players than Wolves, all we need to do is get them playing right!

It's the lack of use of the flanks and lack of creativity from the centre that means we can't even get in behind a team like Blackpool's defence and it ends up resorting to long balls down the centre of the pitch to Kevin Phillips - which isn't a tactic - it's just stupidity.

The only way we can rectify this is by moving Larsson back onto the right, putting Quincy WIDE on the left and utilising the wings with Murphy and Kelly steaming up from the back.

At the moment we're far too narrow and teams find it very easy to defend against us.

I would even entertain the notion of playing McFadden in an advanced central midfield role alongside Carsley. This is because it's so plainly obvious that there's not enough flair, drive and invention from the central pairings.

I'd go for this lineup:

---------------------------- Taylor ----------------------------

Kelly ------------ Ridgewell ------ Taylor ----------- Murphy

Larsson --------- Carsley -------- McFadden ------- Quincy

------------------- Jerome ------- Bent ----------------------


What do people think of my assessment?

feed.back
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Blues
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Mikael Forssell
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I wouldn't let Tiny Taylor anywhere near a blue shirt. He made a very average footballer look like a worldbeater on Saturday. Time to put him out to grass and put somebody in with a little more vision and mobility, like 'Blind Dave' maybe.
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Lars_Dudley
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We don't have the same kind of pace that Kightly and Jarvis offer Wolves. Not just offensively, but defensively. Ok, Quincy is quick, but McSheffrey and Larsson aren't particularly. We'd be much more open to a counter attack by relying on Larsson and McSheffrey to keep running forwards all game. They have other qualities which we could/should utilise like their delivery. From what I've seen of Kightly, he likes to run into the box a lot. I've only seen highlights of Jarvis though so don't know how he plays much.

I think it's kind of stating the obvious to say wingers should play on the wings. But to say we should play like Wolves isn't a solution to our problem (if indeed there is a problem at all).
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TJDIXI
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Trevor Francis
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Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........Anyone

McFadden

Phillips...........Bent


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Blues
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Mikael Forssell
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Like it TJ but Jerome would get the nod over Philips for a starting place for me. That Wilson Palacios fella could do a good job on the left for us.
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TJDIXI
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Trevor Francis
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Blues
Sep 22 2008, 02:38 PM
Like it TJ but Jerome would get the nod over Philips for a starting place for me. That Winston Palacios fella could do a good job on the left for us.

What I like about Phillips that i really don't like about Jerome is that at least Phillips has developed the skill of being able to trap the ball and turn and pass/control. I'd agree that the touches give him a quick getaway as he has the pace but most of the time he ends up giving the ball away.

However I'd agree with you on the debate between Phillips and Jerome. I think Bent has to start a lot more as he does have a more commanding edge on the game and he could do with a run, imo.
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
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will_bcfc
Sep 22 2008, 02:14 PM
Most teams are going to come to St.Andrews this season and will simply be happy to get a point from the game. They'll defend stoutly and we are the ones who will have to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

From what I can see, in all home matches this season, we don't stretch teams enough by using the channels down the wings.

If you watch the Wolves so far this season - who are averaging 3 goals a game - they have quick wide players (Kightly and Jarvis) who constantly try to get past their man down the wing and often stand on the touchline waiting for a chance to run at someone.

The problem with playing McSheffrey is that he always drifts inside to receive the ball - giving Murphy no real option to play forward - resulting in a pass sideward or backward. It gets to a point where we effectively play in half a pitch! Even with Quincy, he's a bit adverse to going on the outside and whipping in a dangerous cross.

Wolves also have David Jones in the centre of the park, who gives a good quality attacking touch on the ball and loves to get into the opposition's box.

For their second goal against Preston, when Kightly whipped the cross in, Wolves had FOUR gold shirts all trying to get on the end of the ball - including Jones who had made an intelligent run as a disguise for Iwelumo's dash to the near post from which he scored.

We've got much better players than Wolves, all we need to do is get them playing right!

It's the lack of use of the flanks and lack of creativity from the centre that means we can't even get in behind a team like Blackpool's defence and it ends up resorting to long balls down the centre of the pitch to Kevin Phillips - which isn't a tactic - it's just stupidity.

The only way we can rectify this is by moving Larsson back onto the right, putting Quincy WIDE on the left and utilising the wings with Murphy and Kelly steaming up from the back.

At the moment we're far too narrow and teams find it very easy to defend against us.

I would even entertain the notion of playing McFadden in an advanced central midfield role alongside Carsley. This is because it's so plainly obvious that there's not enough flair, drive and invention from the central pairings.

I'd go for this lineup:

---------------------------- Taylor ----------------------------

Kelly ------------ Ridgewell ------ Taylor ----------- Murphy

Larsson --------- Carsley -------- McFadden ------- Quincy

------------------- Jerome ------- Bent ----------------------


What do people think of my assessment?

feed.back

lol you have far too much time on your hands.

Its AM's job to pick the team and his much more qualified than anyone on this forum to do it.
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Lucky
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Bob Latchford
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will_bcfc
Sep 22 2008, 02:14 PM
Most teams are going to come to St.Andrews this season and will simply be happy to get a point from the game. They'll defend stoutly and we are the ones who will have to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

From what I can see, in all home matches this season, we don't stretch teams enough by using the channels down the wings.

If you watch the Wolves so far this season - who are averaging 3 goals a game - they have quick wide players (Kightly and Jarvis) who constantly try to get past their man down the wing and often stand on the touchline waiting for a chance to run at someone.

The problem with playing McSheffrey is that he always drifts inside to receive the ball - giving Murphy no real option to play forward - resulting in a pass sideward or backward. It gets to a point where we effectively play in half a pitch! Even with Quincy, he's a bit adverse to going on the outside and whipping in a dangerous cross.

Wolves also have David Jones in the centre of the park, who gives a good quality attacking touch on the ball and loves to get into the opposition's box.

For their second goal against Preston, when Kightly whipped the cross in, Wolves had FOUR gold shirts all trying to get on the end of the ball - including Jones who had made an intelligent run as a disguise for Iwelumo's dash to the near post from which he scored.

We've got much better players than Wolves, all we need to do is get them playing right!

It's the lack of use of the flanks and lack of creativity from the centre that means we can't even get in behind a team like Blackpool's defence and it ends up resorting to long balls down the centre of the pitch to Kevin Phillips - which isn't a tactic - it's just stupidity.

The only way we can rectify this is by moving Larsson back onto the right, putting Quincy WIDE on the left and utilising the wings with Murphy and Kelly steaming up from the back.

At the moment we're far too narrow and teams find it very easy to defend against us.

I would even entertain the notion of playing McFadden in an advanced central midfield role alongside Carsley. This is because it's so plainly obvious that there's not enough flair, drive and invention from the central pairings.

I'd go for this lineup:

---------------------------- Taylor ----------------------------

Kelly ------------ Ridgewell ------ Taylor ----------- Murphy

Larsson --------- Carsley -------- McFadden ------- Quincy

------------------- Jerome ------- Bent ----------------------


What do people think of my assessment?

feed.back

Careful mate or you will be accused of knowing a bit about football,we dont want that now do we,
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demood
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
blueblood
Sep 22 2008, 04:32 PM
will_bcfc
Sep 22 2008, 02:14 PM
Most teams are going to come to St.Andrews this season and will simply be happy to get a point from the game. They'll defend stoutly and we are the ones who will have to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

From what I can see, in all home matches this season, we don't stretch teams enough by using the channels down the wings.

If you watch the Wolves so far this season - who are averaging 3 goals a game - they have quick wide players (Kightly and Jarvis) who constantly try to get past their man down the wing and often stand on the touchline waiting for a chance to run at someone.

The problem with playing McSheffrey is that he always drifts inside to receive the ball - giving Murphy no real option to play forward - resulting in a pass sideward or backward. It gets to a point where we effectively play in half a pitch! Even with Quincy, he's a bit adverse to going on the outside and whipping in a dangerous cross.

Wolves also have David Jones in the centre of the park, who gives a good quality attacking touch on the ball and loves to get into the opposition's box.

For their second goal against Preston, when Kightly whipped the cross in, Wolves had FOUR gold shirts all trying to get on the end of the ball - including Jones who had made an intelligent run as a disguise for Iwelumo's dash to the near post from which he scored.

We've got much better players than Wolves, all we need to do is get them playing right!

It's the lack of use of the flanks and lack of creativity from the centre that means we can't even get in behind a team like Blackpool's defence and it ends up resorting to long balls down the centre of the pitch to Kevin Phillips - which isn't a tactic - it's just stupidity.

The only way we can rectify this is by moving Larsson back onto the right, putting Quincy WIDE on the left and utilising the wings with Murphy and Kelly steaming up from the back.

At the moment we're far too narrow and teams find it very easy to defend against us.

I would even entertain the notion of playing McFadden in an advanced central midfield role alongside Carsley. This is because it's so plainly obvious that there's not enough flair, drive and invention from the central pairings.

I'd go for this lineup:

---------------------------- Taylor ----------------------------

Kelly ------------ Ridgewell ------ Taylor ----------- Murphy

Larsson --------- Carsley -------- McFadden ------- Quincy

------------------- Jerome ------- Bent ----------------------


What do people think of my assessment?

feed.back

lol you have far too much time on your hands.

Its AM's job to pick the team and his much more qualified than anyone on this forum to do it.

Just a pitty he aint got a clue on how to play them once he has picked them
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The_future_is_blue
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Frank Worthington
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Play parnaby
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pooley
The Icon
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TJDIXI
Sep 22 2008, 01:35 PM


Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........Anyone

McFadden

Phillips...........Bent


swap mcfadden for anyone and the put shef in mscfaddens original place behind strikers...a-la



Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........McFadden

McSheffrey

Phillips...........Jerome

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wardendbluenose
Alex Govan
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I'd agree with trying McFadden in a CM role. He's not everybodies cup of tea but he always wants the ball and he can create something out of nothing. I think that Carsley would do enough covering for the both of them.

But I thought that Larsson would make a great CM, so I don't know anything.
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The Concerned Potato Head
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Big Bawss
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pooley
Sep 22 2008, 05:23 PM
TJDIXI
Sep 22 2008, 01:35 PM


Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........Anyone

McFadden

Phillips...........Bent


swap mcfadden for anyone and the put shef in mscfaddens original place behind strikers...a-la



Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........McFadden

McSheffrey

Phillips...........Jerome


we would have to pretty much rule out any aerial play which in the Championship is a necessity for many games. McSheff would never get the flick on. i'd put Bent where McSheff is.
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pooley
The Icon
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The Concerned Potato Head
Sep 22 2008, 05:43 PM
pooley
Sep 22 2008, 05:23 PM
TJDIXI
Sep 22 2008, 01:35 PM


Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........Anyone

McFadden

Phillips...........Bent


swap mcfadden for anyone and the put shef in mscfaddens original place behind strikers...a-la



Taylor

Parnaby.........Kelly..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

Carsley

Larson...........McFadden

McSheffrey

Phillips...........Jerome


we would have to pretty much rule out any aerial play which in the Championship is a necessity for many games. McSheff would never get the flick on. i'd put Bent where McSheff is.

i disagree, in the air anyone is as good as anyone else, we need to get it on the deck and knock it about and get into a flow, if we can we can run rings round other teams, its just getting the right players, where they feel comfortable to do that
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fozzylou
Geoff Horsfield
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can't agree with the diamond shape midfield at all. some people have mention our wide players and i agree 100% this is the best solution for us considering our current squad.

against blackpool the whole team played narrow which played into their plans. get larsson and quincy hogging the touchlines and sending in crosses for either bent, o'connor + 1 more.

would just like to praise bent for his efforts on saturday, won plenty of headers and never stopped running.

mcsheff is totally shot, it's a shame to see how his form has deserted him. since he got sent off against derby feb 07 i can not think of a positive peformance or even an occassion where he's had the better of his opponent.
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mad4theblues
Alex Govan
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Personally ive always wanted blues to take up this formation:


..............................Taylor

Parnaby.........Taylor..........Ridgewell.........Murphy

.............................Carsley

.......Larrson......................................Quincy

...........................McFadden

...............Jerome................O'Connor

Call it a 4-1-2-1-2 (believe thats what Mourino used to use at Chelsea?)

Have Larsson and Quincy out wide, Mcfadden in CM drifting around wherever needed and Carsley holding up the ranks, want to see it tried, dout we ever will though :angry:
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leechy
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Frank Worthington
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We could never play that formation, Maik would kick it to the left. :whistle:
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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blueblood
Sep 22 2008, 04:32 PM
lol you have far too much time on your hands.

Its AM's job to pick the team and his much more qualified than anyone on this forum to do it.

ok, well thanks for your useless input.

how about we shut the message board down, because I'm sure there's more qualified people to discuss any topic on here.

I'm just saying that if we played a wider game, then we'd probably reap more rewards. Professional people don't get it right all the time you know.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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We saw on Saturday the dangers of playing someone in midfield (Larsson) who is not up to the specific role of a central midfielder, so now you want to play someone with even less ability to "get stuck in" alongside the 34 year old?

Are we trying to run Carsley into the ground or something?
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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franscar
Sep 22 2008, 08:06 PM
We saw on Saturday the dangers of playing someone in midfield (Larsson) who is not up to the specific role of a central midfielder, so now you want to play someone with even less ability to "get stuck in" alongside the 34 year old?

Are we trying to run Carsley into the ground or something?

i see what you mean - but who can give us that creativity AND tackling energy in the centre of midfield?

no one! but at least McFadden may give us more attacking potency.
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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But how useful is attacking potency if you don't have anyone to win the ball? If we can find someone like Muzzy Izzet, but with working legs, then that would be fantastic, but with the squad we currently have the best option is to have a tight, compact central midfield who will fight and scrap and win the ball, and allow the wide men the freedom to push forward and be creative.

I'd say give Agustien more time, he's come into a new league in a new country, he's coming back from an injury and still settling in. He's probably not going to be a world beater, but you don't get too many of those playing Championship football.
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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I agree - Agustien didn't do anything wrong on Saturday but was still taken off (when it was McSheffrey who had done nothing).

But let's just concentrate on the 'stretching of the play'. Surely people must agree that we're playing far too narrow!
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mad4theblues
Alex Govan
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Agusiten looked to make a couple of good passes, the who he passed to Mcsheffrey or Mcfadden... think it was a Mc anyway... was excellently placed in the highlights on virgin, they then went to proceed to brilliant through ball across the box... and Kelly managed to miss from about 4ft...

There looked to be some good play from the highlights... but apart from that given every bodies response im guessing not...
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franscar
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Mikael Forssell
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will_bcfc
Sep 22 2008, 08:17 PM
I agree - Agustien didn't do anything wrong on Saturday but was still taken off (when it was McSheffrey who had done nothing).

But let's just concentrate on the 'stretching of the play'. Surely people must agree that we're playing far too narrow!

I agree entirely we need to move the ball across the pitch must more, but at the moment we seem to have a team that is under great pressure from the amateur Cloughie's in the Tilton to "stop wasting time and get it up the bloody pitch". Whenever we knock the ball across the back line the groans begin, and it can get to certain players and make them play passes that they shouldn't. Top sides are perfectly comfortable moving the ball sideways, and backwards, if it means keeping possession of the ball. That isn't happening at St. Andrews right now because too many players are looking to go forwards at all costs, especially from the central third of the pitch.

You can tell Carsley is a cut above because he doesn't pay any attention to what the crowd are telling him to do, and hopefully he'll be able to indoctrinate the rest of the team into that state of mind. There's nothing wrong with going sideways.
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Ian
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Alex Govan
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For what its worth Will heres my formation and selection. Home and away. Where is it written you play attacking football at home and defencive football away, it irritates me :banghead:

Compared to the rest of the team i thought Kelly wasn't that bad on Saturday, he tends to try and play the ball out of defence instead of panic row Z it! He has more pace than tiny and is not as clumsy. I would be happier with him to clean up after Ridgewell than Tiny. If Ridge well screws up Tiny doesn't have the pace to get him out the proverbial.
Carsley is just so consistent he is a god solid dependable midfielder, leave him in the centre and let him do his stuff.
Murphy is also very good at playing the ball down the channels between his and Quincy's pace we should slice the left wing apart.
Quincy will run the wing all day long & cause all sorts of problems for the opposition as he did against Blackpool for the short minutes he was on.
McFadden is categorically not a winger the freedom of playing in the centre where he can feed a ball through to forwards or go for goal is his best position, he is stifled out on the wing which is why he keeps trying to cut in and looses the ball.
Jerome loves to take the ball from the right and cut in so leave him there. Leaving O'Connor as his strike partner takes the pressure off McFadden and Jerome and shares the goal scoring opportunity.

I know it leaves us sparse across the centre but Mcfadden has that free role to push forward or drop back depending on how the game is panning out.

Taylor

Parnaby Kelly Ridgewell Murphy

Larrson Carsley Quincy

Mcfadden
Jerome O'Connor

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