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Benitez; seriously.....
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Topic Started: Feb 13 2010, 07:23 PM (2,198 Views)
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SHA007
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Feb 14 2010, 02:29 PM
Post #76
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- goalsavingnick
- Feb 13 2010, 07:25 PM
Fools...
:applause:
They don't see his contribution and his impact on the side.
I dare say these "fools" are the same people who are primarily concerned in singing.
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Lewis
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Feb 14 2010, 02:37 PM
Post #77
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- notsodeadlyellis
- Feb 14 2010, 03:20 PM
- Jabber BCFC
- Feb 14 2010, 01:55 PM
- notsodeadlyellis
- Feb 14 2010, 01:31 PM
- jonnyconcrete
- Feb 13 2010, 09:29 PM
- in01_saund
- Feb 13 2010, 07:53 PM
- bcfc06
- Feb 13 2010, 07:34 PM
- topbird
- Feb 13 2010, 07:32 PM
Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
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turunc
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Feb 14 2010, 03:47 PM
Post #78
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Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
I think Gold and Sully have no interest in taking Chucho, who would I'm sorry 3 assists and 1 goal and this was the next Messi, personally I wouldn't give £7 for him never mind 7 million. No they are hoping Eck does want to keep him and by making it an auction they can force CY to pay more than he is worth, that is how sad I believe those two are!
Whats surprises me is the support the Equadorian gets from some quarters, if he was English and from League 1 or the Championship everyone would be saying what a load of rubbish and that is what you get from those leagues, players who rarely make the step up, especially forwards. However because he is from Equador instead you get "South Americans take time to settle". What a load of twaddle, he ain't good enough and I am hoping the only reason Eck is not saying that is because we are so short of forwards and he is keeping him happy till he can ship him out at the end of the season. Personally I will be sad if we buy him, I know he is part of the unbeaten team, but Blues could do so much better than Benitez.
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Mr_Blue_Sky
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Feb 14 2010, 03:54 PM
Post #79
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I think a big reason for why hes not making the same impact at the moment like he was near the start of the season, is because teams and managers are working him out...
If you watch him now, as soon as he receives the ball, 1 or 2 defenders go straight in on him and close him down, near the start of the season they would allow him to turn, compose himself, and then run straight at them, where as now he doesnt even get time to turn because the defenders go straight into the back of him...
When he tries to back up against the incoming defender he just gets shoved over, if he can learn to spin round and get the ball from out under his feet quicker he will be more effective.. I think it just takes one nervy defence to back off him and let him run and he will work his magic and grow in confidence, cause at the moment he doesnt look comfortable on the ball
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Lewis
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Feb 14 2010, 04:18 PM
Post #80
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Luck_H, that is the sort of point that most people miss. In defence of Jerome last time out I made the point that he had three players on him every time we were on the attack. No one argued the point, but all the Jerome detractors ignored the point as well. There are good footballing reasons why both Jerome and Benitez are not prolific, but there are far too many Blues supporters who cannot extend their support to two very hard working capable players, that many clubs would bite our hands off for.
In fact I have just come in from the car, where I was listening to Steve Claridge (I rate him as a football pundit) commenting on Fulham v Notts County. He was singing the praises of Bobby Zamora, who actually scored just as Steve finished his analysis of him. Great timing. But he also said that was Zamora's 13th goal of the season, when he went all last season getttng only 4 goals.
As I have said so many time before, I feel like a broken record, it isn't as clear cut as far too many detractors make it out to be.
You have to go with bottom line here. The effect of having the team we have, which includes Jerome and Benitez up front, is that we have had our best period of results in our history, and are in the quarter finals of the FA cup. That is brilliant, and whilst I would love us to be scoring loads as well, to make that a moan about the club or any players would, in my view, be churlish.
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Mr_Blue_Sky
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Feb 14 2010, 04:29 PM
Post #81
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- Lewis
- Feb 14 2010, 04:18 PM
Luck_H, that is the sort of point that most people miss. In defence of Jerome last time out I made the point that he had three players on him every time we were on the attack. No one argued the point, but all the Jerome detractors ignored the point as well. There are good footballing reasons why both Jerome and Benitez are not prolific, but there are far too many Blues supporters who cannot extend their support to two very hard working capable players, that many clubs would bite our hands off for.
In fact I have just come in from the car, where I was listening to Steve Claridge (I rate him as a football pundit) commenting on Fulham v Notts County. He was singing the praises of Bobby Zamora, who actually scored just as Steve finished his analysis of him. Great timing. But he also said that was Zamora's 13th goal of the season, when he went all last season getttng only 4 goals.
As I have said so many time before, I feel like a broken record, it isn't as clear cut as far too many detractors make it out to be.
You have to go with bottom line here. The effect of having the team we have, which includes Jerome and Benitez up front, is that we have had our best period of results in our history, and are in the quarter finals of the FA cup. That is brilliant, and whilst I would love us to be scoring loads as well, to make that a moan about the club or any players would, in my view, be churlish.
Yeah, there is alot of stuff that people miss about Jerome + Chucho..
For example the frighteners they put on defenders, when our defenders hoof it out for safety and just say Jerome starts chasing, the defenders pop it out for a throw due to fear.
Teams line-up differently against us, and sometimes defend deeper to incorporate a bumper of safety from our front-runners...
I dont know who else noticed it, but due to the fact teams use more of their players to pull back and defend against our strikers and wingers, the space Ridgewell and Carr get given when coming forward is phenomenal, we just dont always utilize it
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tony123
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Feb 14 2010, 04:47 PM
Post #82
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Alex Ferguson has always known to do well in the league you have to have fire power.
From the same point of view really it isnt a case of replacing Benitez it's a place of getting other players as well as him. The question is how much is Benitez worth?
His turn and snapshot in the box against ManU would have been world class had it gone in.
At the start of the season 12m was banded about which now appears expensive based on the bumber of goals he has scored.
I dont believe the number of goals he has scored is a guide to he worth as I think he has 10 goals a season in him. But this season it hasnt happened. With players like McGeady feeding him he would get more goals.
However based on his current form I dont think he can warrent a 12m price tag. I would want to pay 5m for him with maybe some form of goal based bonus structure and a sell on fee.
I would ideally want to keep him though for 5m he is a good attacking threat and this is the part of our sode which need improving rather than replacing.
But he cant demand top whack on current product.
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Migster
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Feb 14 2010, 05:20 PM
Post #83
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- Feb 13 2010, 07:53 PM
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- Feb 13 2010, 07:34 PM
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- Feb 13 2010, 07:32 PM
Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
I think Gold and Sully have no interest in taking Chucho, who would I'm sorry 3 assists and 1 goal and this was the next Messi, personally I wouldn't give £7 for him never mind 7 million. No they are hoping Eck does want to keep him and by making it an auction they can force CY to pay more than he is worth, that is how sad I believe those two are! Whats surprises me is the support the Equadorian gets from some quarters, if he was English and from League 1 or the Championship everyone would be saying what a load of rubbish and that is what you get from those leagues, players who rarely make the step up, especially forwards. However because he is from Equador instead you get "South Americans take time to settle". What a load of twaddle, he ain't good enough and I am hoping the only reason Eck is not saying that is because we are so short of forwards and he is keeping him happy till he can ship him out at the end of the season. Personally I will be sad if we buy him, I know he is part of the unbeaten team, but Blues could do so much better than Benitez.
He gets support from this quarter because he's very good at football and puts in 100% every time he plays. There's a few topics knocking around on statistics right now. Try reading them before injecting any more of your poison into our club.
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samtendorji
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Feb 14 2010, 05:37 PM
Post #84
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- Feb 13 2010, 07:34 PM
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- Feb 13 2010, 07:32 PM
Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
I think Gold and Sully have no interest in taking Chucho, who would I'm sorry 3 assists and 1 goal and this was the next Messi, personally I wouldn't give £7 for him never mind 7 million. No they are hoping Eck does want to keep him and by making it an auction they can force CY to pay more than he is worth, that is how sad I believe those two are! Whats surprises me is the support the Equadorian gets from some quarters, if he was English and from League 1 or the Championship everyone would be saying what a load of rubbish and that is what you get from those leagues, players who rarely make the step up, especially forwards. However because he is from Equador instead you get "South Americans take time to settle". What a load of twaddle, he ain't good enough and I am hoping the only reason Eck is not saying that is because we are so short of forwards and he is keeping him happy till he can ship him out at the end of the season. Personally I will be sad if we buy him, I know he is part of the unbeaten team, but Blues could do so much better than Benitez.
He gets support from this quarter because he's very good at football and puts in 100% every time he plays. There's a few topics knocking around on statistics right now. Try reading them before injecting any more of your poison into our club.
second that.... :banner:
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Jabber BCFC
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Feb 14 2010, 06:08 PM
Post #85
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- Feb 13 2010, 07:32 PM
Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
I think Gold and Sully have no interest in taking Chucho, who would I'm sorry 3 assists and 1 goal and this was the next Messi, personally I wouldn't give £7 for him never mind 7 million. No they are hoping Eck does want to keep him and by making it an auction they can force CY to pay more than he is worth, that is how sad I believe those two are! Whats surprises me is the support the Equadorian gets from some quarters, if he was English and from League 1 or the Championship everyone would be saying what a load of rubbish and that is what you get from those leagues, players who rarely make the step up, especially forwards. However because he is from Equador instead you get "South Americans take time to settle". What a load of twaddle, he ain't good enough and I am hoping the only reason Eck is not saying that is because we are so short of forwards and he is keeping him happy till he can ship him out at the end of the season. Personally I will be sad if we buy him, I know he is part of the unbeaten team, but Blues could do so much better than Benitez.
He gets support from this quarter because he's very good at football and puts in 100% every time he plays. There's a few topics knocking around on statistics right now. Try reading them before injecting any more of your poison into our club.
second that.... :banner:
He has 3 goals and more than 3 assists, and I will be very annoyed if we don't sign him.
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bluess7
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Feb 14 2010, 07:29 PM
Post #86
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- MikaelForssell
- Feb 14 2010, 02:22 AM
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- Feb 14 2010, 12:26 AM
Chucho is a potential world class player, he just needs to learn how to finish.
He's missed 7 or 8 side footers this season.
I don't understand how he can have so much quality on the ball but spoon his shots straight at the keeper... every time.
I know confidence makes a difference, but McLeish needs to have a word with his intepretator and tell him he's going to miss the opportunity of a life time if he doesn't find some composure within himself (which we all know he has).
I've every faith in the guy. I think people forget he's 22.
Spot on, except the age :P :LOL:(Skip to the bottom of my post if you cant be bothered to read, ill summarise :LOL:)Its obvious he's a player who thrives on confidence... and at home, he always seems too eager to score his first goal at St Andrews, so takes extra touches. You look at Phillips, and he's experienced, and he knows to rely on his instincts... and when Chucho does that, and Jerome too (you only have to look at his more instinctive efforts this season... Liverpool away, and his second goal vs Blackburn at home... to see how effective that can be). Confidence for the front two is important, and unfortunately there are people who have identified them to be our 'weak link' already, because "they arent scoring enough goals" or what not. When really, they are amongst our top scorers (yes I know thats not much to boast about with 6 being top but still..). If they get the confidence from the fans, and are actually supported, rather than every loose touch or bad pass made is greeted by groans from the crowd and gestures towards them, they may well improve quite a bit, then rely on instincts more. Jerome has it in him especially, it wasnt long ago that he banged in 20 for Cardiff, playing with full confidence, supporters who had trust in him, and his varied finishes prove he was confident, and relying on instincts. Chucho is a fine example of a team player...he puts a lot of effort in, usually thats enough for Blues fans, but expectations shot up in the summer following our long, drawn out transfer negotiations for him... with, and im pretty sure I can say this in full confidence, a lot of people not seeing him play, apart from maybe YouTube clips? Also take into consideration that Chucho IS NOT an out and out front man, who will stay in the box and rarely venture back, as his main position is second striker, linking up from deep, and playing off a strong target man... which is why Eck went for Pavlyuchenko.. Yet (and im a fan of him too btw) Pavlyuchenko was wanted by more or less 90%-95% of this messageboard throughout January, when he's more of a selfish player, who wont run around for 90 minutes like a Chucho would... how long would it be for him to be the new resident scapegoat? To summarise (and for the people who havent been bothered to read the above stuff following my little message at the start :LOL:). The two main issues with Christian Benitez right now, is 1. Confidence, and 2. Fan Expectation. 1. Simple enough, he lacks confidence due to lack of goals.. he's trying too hard at home to score. 2. It was far too much to ask for him to come in, shoulder all our goalscoring, and finish with double figures in his first season over here? Yet that doesnt stop people thinking he should be up with the top scorers in the league. Look at Drogba (different players I know and im not comparing them on anything but this).. he took a couple of years to settle in England, and is now arguably the best striker in Europe (not for me, that'd be Rooney, but still). He has plenty of time ahead of him in his career, he's 23, he's damn talented (that cannot be denied surely?) but he needs to learn how to harness his talent to his fulfill his promise.
Top Post :applause:
I have seen fans on here knocking Chucho who mentioned wanting to sign Rodellega for 9mil in the window.............another South American who took 20 odd games to get his first goal and a full season to adapt!
I like Rodellega............but I'd say judge Chucho once hes into his second season AND gets to play with a target man!!
Remember, players like Kev Phillips, Ian Wright and Defoe are/were more prolific alongside target men!
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ohhhnurse
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Feb 14 2010, 07:34 PM
Post #87
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Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
I think Gold and Sully have no interest in taking Chucho, who would I'm sorry 3 assists and 1 goal and this was the next Messi, personally I wouldn't give £7 for him never mind 7 million. No they are hoping Eck does want to keep him and by making it an auction they can force CY to pay more than he is worth, that is how sad I believe those two are! Whats surprises me is the support the Equadorian gets from some quarters, if he was English and from League 1 or the Championship everyone would be saying what a load of rubbish and that is what you get from those leagues, players who rarely make the step up, especially forwards. However because he is from Equador instead you get "South Americans take time to settle". What a load of twaddle, he ain't good enough and I am hoping the only reason Eck is not saying that is because we are so short of forwards and he is keeping him happy till he can ship him out at the end of the season. Personally I will be sad if we buy him, I know he is part of the unbeaten team, but Blues could do so much better than Benitez.
He gets support from this quarter because he's very good at football and puts in 100% every time he plays. There's a few topics knocking around on statistics right now. Try reading them before injecting any more of your poison into our club.
second that.... :banner:
He has 3 goals and more than 3 assists, and I will be very annoyed if we don't sign him.
To be honest that is a terrible return the number of mins he has been on the pitch.
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PA_nomore!
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Feb 14 2010, 08:00 PM
Post #88
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Carlton Cole couldn't hit a barn door a few years ago.
Really and truly I think the main factor is experience, look at Phillips.
We need an experienced CF up top with either Jerome or Chucho.
I'd definitely keep Chucho, he's a top talent that needs refining, but offers more than enough in the mean time.
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turunc
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Feb 15 2010, 08:58 AM
Post #89
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- Jabber BCFC
- Feb 14 2010, 06:08 PM
- samtendorji
- Feb 14 2010, 05:37 PM
- Migster
- Feb 14 2010, 05:20 PM
- turunc
- Feb 14 2010, 03:47 PM
- Lewis
- Feb 14 2010, 02:37 PM
- notsodeadlyellis
- Feb 14 2010, 03:20 PM
- Jabber BCFC
- Feb 14 2010, 01:55 PM
- notsodeadlyellis
- Feb 14 2010, 01:31 PM
- jonnyconcrete
- Feb 13 2010, 09:29 PM
- in01_saund
- Feb 13 2010, 07:53 PM
- bcfc06
- Feb 13 2010, 07:34 PM
- topbird
- Feb 13 2010, 07:32 PM
Sorry to h-jack your thread but for me it's Jerome i know some of u might beat me up for this but he is AWFUL he couldn't hit a barn door. I know he has pace i know he runs dfenders ragged but ffs he is a striker and strikers like Phillips know how to score goals - simple Jerome does not have th instict or foresight or brain to be a striker. I for one would not be dissappoited if he goes in the summer....to a championship club !!!!!!!! He'll do for now as we haven't got any real alternative but bye bye in the summer.............
Oh and he is lazy too...................
Oh and I am NOT moaning just giving an opinion ok
Have to agree 100%
Lazy?! You are entitled to an opinion but to call him lazy is ridiculous
He's not lazy, just freekin thick he can't read the game...and just appears lazy!
This sums it all up just nicely, agree with TB up to the lazy suggestion As for Chucho he has skill, trickery and pace, definitely not the strength and I'm yet to be convinced by his finishing ablility but am prepared to wait and see on that one. For me it is Jerome who is the weak link, Benitez just had a poor game yesterday :applause: So would you buy Chucho in the Summer?
that would depend on what we could get him for, possibly not worth buying at the price that is reputedly being asked, but he might be one we'd regret not signing
Well, apparently DS & DG are interested in taking him off our hands.
I think Gold and Sully have no interest in taking Chucho, who would I'm sorry 3 assists and 1 goal and this was the next Messi, personally I wouldn't give £7 for him never mind 7 million. No they are hoping Eck does want to keep him and by making it an auction they can force CY to pay more than he is worth, that is how sad I believe those two are! Whats surprises me is the support the Equadorian gets from some quarters, if he was English and from League 1 or the Championship everyone would be saying what a load of rubbish and that is what you get from those leagues, players who rarely make the step up, especially forwards. However because he is from Equador instead you get "South Americans take time to settle". What a load of twaddle, he ain't good enough and I am hoping the only reason Eck is not saying that is because we are so short of forwards and he is keeping him happy till he can ship him out at the end of the season. Personally I will be sad if we buy him, I know he is part of the unbeaten team, but Blues could do so much better than Benitez.
He gets support from this quarter because he's very good at football and puts in 100% every time he plays. There's a few topics knocking around on statistics right now. Try reading them before injecting any more of your poison into our club.
second that.... :banner:
He has 3 goals and more than 3 assists, and I will be very annoyed if we don't sign him.
In all walks of life people are paid to do a job, doesn't have to be football.
A salesman has to sell or he loses his job, doesn't matter how hard working he is?
A Chef has to cook if people do not get their meals they complain and the Chef gets the sack?
If Roger Johnson was full of effort but kept making blunders and letting strikers past him to score, he would be dropped.
Only in Football can fans it would appear believe it is acceptable to consider paying around 7 million for a striker who can only get, lets be generous and double his current tally of three to six goals for the season, maybe because the fans are not spending 7 million of their own money?
I have nothing against Chucho, I like the guy, but for all his effort his return is poor by any standards and surely must cast doubt over his purchase in the Summer.
As for the St Andrews Amateur Dramatic Society and their input concerning pumping poison into their club, just a heads up people it isn't just your club and although this is a big step for you to take on board, your opinions are not everybodies and not necessarily correct.
This is just my opinion, I am not knocking his endeavours, I am not knocking his workrate or that he has helped towards the previous unbeaten run, I am just saying imo a striker costing 7 million or anywhere around that figure should be getting more goals.
Cause in the back end of the season he might just explode and score another 10 goals, but I honestly do not think that will happen, just as I honestly think Chucho is not the striker we need going forward, if he was priced considerably less maybe he would be worth keeping as one of four stiking options, but anywhere near the previously quoted transfers figures quoted for him, I would say is to rich.
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turunc
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Feb 15 2010, 10:36 AM
Post #90
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- Lewis
- Feb 15 2010, 10:20 AM
In some walks of life it takes an eternity to be able to deliver to your potential, in a world of such impatience we would be sacking doctors, dentists, vets, electricians, plumbers,scientists, etc etc etc etc years before they were able to deliver to anywhere near their full potential. Even Salesmen get training, and are not expected to deliver results until fully matured, well except for in the most awful cowboy environments that is. Not a good rationale turunc.
Sorry but I would disagree with you Lewis on that point, I have been in Sales twenty-six years and trust me I have seen many salespeople sacked for underachieving and that was not by some Cowboy company, I am talking about large organisations. I think less pressure is placed on younger salespeople on lower salaries, but when businesses are paying a salesman, say 60k a year they expect results after a very short honeymoon period.
I don't believe either this is about patience, if Benitez was being sold as a developing young player at a suitably lower cost, then I believe people would have more patience. However he is not a youth he is 24/25 years old and initially there was talk of us signing him for upwards of ten million, that figure has now come down to somewhere nearer 7 million I understand, but again for someone of that cost I would have expected more goals. Why should a team like Birmingham pay 7 million to develop him as a player, if that was the expectation, then his cost should have been substantially less?
As in all walks of life it is no good talking the talk if you cannot walk the walk.
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Lewis
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Feb 15 2010, 11:16 AM
Post #91
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turunc I deleted the post to edit a few things about it so the sequence of the debate looks weird now, but anyway you have it captured.............
We have only paid £1m for Benitez, so I think firstly you have to make your assessment based on that. if we go ahead and pay the full amount and he is not delivering in the second year, then I guess we would all have a more critical view of him, but not at this time.
I also worked in a Blue Chip Sales organisation for 24 years, and I do know what I'm talking about. Even you admit there are different levels of expectation dependant on experience so I think we probably agree.
You carefully side step all other professions where the truth of good development leading good performance supports the point I am making.
BTW I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, so no need for your sorrow.
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turunc
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Feb 15 2010, 11:36 AM
Post #92
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- Lewis
- Feb 15 2010, 11:16 AM
turunc I deleted the post to edit a few things about it so the sequence of the debate looks weird now, but anyway you have it captured.............
We have only paid £1m for Benitez, so I think firstly you have to make your assessment based on that. if we go ahead and pay the full amount and he is not delivering in the second year, then I guess we would all have a more critical view of him, but not at this time.
I also worked in a Blue Chip Sales organisation for 24 years, and I do know what I'm talking about. Even you admit there are different levels of expectation dependant on experience so I think we probably agree.
You carefully side step all other professions where the truth of good development leading good performance supports the point I am making.
BTW I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, so no need for your sorrow.
Thank you for releiving me of my sorrow ;)
I take on board your comment regarding 1 million so far for Benitez, however based on him doubling his tally for the season and coming in with 6 goals, would you honestly be happy with Blues paying 7 million for him at the end of the season? Based on his prolific scoring this term would it be right for Blues to risk 7 million on the basis that next season that six will become 10 -15, I don't think were at that stage of our development where we can risk such funds, when we have had a full season to look at his ability and whilst he works hard as a striker his main function must be to score goals.
I think the expectations placed on salespeople often evolve around the salary they are taking, as you join companies on higher salaries the expectation is increased and so is the pressure. I thankfully have never been sacked from a position, but sadly have seen many colleagues fall by the wayside due to not hitting targets, maybe they should have come and worked for your organisation, where they would have been allowed to mature and flourish :D
I was not intending to sidestep any points, however I concentrated on the sales side as this is the arena I have worked in, but I genuinely believe in most industries today that are target driven, the same rules apply.
Anyway thanks for the response, at least it is nice to not just get abuse if someone does not agree with you.
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Lewis
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Feb 15 2010, 12:16 PM
Post #93
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Not sure why people find it necessary to abuse others, far more to be had from good discussions I feel.
I think it is a different point you are making about whether I would be happy to pay £7m for Chucho. My point was really about the need to support our players no matter what. In terms of your new question, I'm not sure yet. Jury is out for me. I think he does trouble defences far more than the majority give him credit for, he does have a way of holding the ball and twisting and turning in threatening positions, he is a hard worker. Having said all of that, if he doesn't adapt more to the conditions and football style here, and start to bury a few, then I would have to think very seriously about whether to continue with him. Jury's out.
PS there were plenty of salesmen and women who were dismissed by our company as well, but I didn't ever see that done without giving them the right training, development and conditions to perform. Well except when they were silly people, gross misconduct is rife within that sort of community.
PPS Oh dear I'm now into anecdote mode. I remember one sales regional year start meeting where the Region manager, who was Scottish, was properly wearing the appropriate attire for his clan, and was sitting on a dining chair pontificating as Regional managers tends to do, and one of his 'boys' who had a slight issue with his boss, crept under the chair from behind and touched the end of his bare dodah with the tip of his cigar. .....Instant dismissal! Well, almost instant, after the screams had died down. As I remember it, the dismissal was rescinded by HR, and they guy went on to have a very short, but heroic extension to his career.
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mezz20
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Feb 15 2010, 12:21 PM
Post #94
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I like Chucho and for 3-4 mil id sign him up but the agreement in place is for a further 8mil to buy him at the end of season now he is not worth that I'm afraid. Also I would agree next to a proper target man he would probably look a better player but is that the way Eck wants to go? I have stated many times I think we will be after players of a higher quality in the Summer rather than hoping Chucho can come good.
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turunc
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Feb 15 2010, 01:23 PM
Post #95
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- mezz20
- Feb 15 2010, 12:21 PM
I like Chucho and for 3-4 mil id sign him up but the agreement in place is for a further 8mil to buy him at the end of season now he is not worth that I'm afraid. Also I would agree next to a proper target man he would probably look a better player but is that the way Eck wants to go? I have stated many times I think we will be after players of a higher quality in the Summer rather than hoping Chucho can come good.
Agreed, that is the point, at 3 million he would be more realistic and people would maybe be more prepared to be patient at a further 8 million, personally likes and dislikes aside I do not think he is good value.
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turunc
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Feb 15 2010, 01:34 PM
Post #96
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- Lewis
- Feb 15 2010, 12:16 PM
Not sure why people find it necessary to abuse others, far more to be had from good discussions I feel.
I think it is a different point you are making about whether I would be happy to pay £7m for Chucho. My point was really about the need to support our players no matter what. In terms of your new question, I'm not sure yet. Jury is out for me. I think he does trouble defences far more than the majority give him credit for, he does have a way of holding the ball and twisting and turning in threatening positions, he is a hard worker. Having said all of that, if he doesn't adapt more to the conditions and football style here, and start to bury a few, then I would have to think very seriously about whether to continue with him. Jury's out.
PS there were plenty of salesmen and women who were dismissed by our company as well, but I didn't ever see that done without giving them the right training, development and conditions to perform. Well except when they were silly people, gross misconduct is rife within that sort of community.
PPS Oh dear I'm now into anecdote mode. I remember one sales regional year start meeting where the Region manager, who was Scottish, was properly wearing the appropriate attire for his clan, and was sitting on a dining chair pontificating as Regional managers tends to do, and one of his 'boys' who had a slight issue with his boss, crept under the chair from behind and touched the end of his bare dodah with the tip of his cigar. .....Instant dismissal! Well, almost instant, after the screams had died down. As I remember it, the dismissal was rescinded by HR, and they guy went on to have a very short, but heroic extension to his career.
Don't get me started on old sales stories!
Too late.... Always remember a Christmas Party, the MD was bringing his new wife who according to the Sales Director was very prim and proper. The room was arranged with round tables laid out ready for all the employees. I was delighted to find I was on the MD's table with his sour faced wife, my only comfort was a young sales guy who was funny and hopefully would lighten the mood round the table. All were sat down and the young sales guy released a wind up todger, which proceeded to head towards the middle of the table. The look on everybodies face was a picture, with everyone even the MD and his wife watching the whole situation mouths open. The todger clicked it's way across the table, it could have gone anywhere, however it neatly side steped various condiments and napkins and finally found its way to the edge of the MD's wifes soup dish, at which point it dived in head first....the sight of the MD red faced sitting there, his wife recoiling from this two inch plastic todger who's feet were still clicking away and the expressions of the other people round that table will always be with me as a very funny memory.
The guy got the sack!
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
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Feb 15 2010, 01:34 PM
Post #97
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If he could shoot like Defoe he would be worth a lot more than £7-8 million...sadly he doesnt so for all the other boxes he ticks then no more than £3 million for me.
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turunc
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Feb 15 2010, 01:36 PM
Post #98
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- B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
- Feb 15 2010, 01:34 PM
If he could shoot like Defoe he would be worth a lot more than £7-8 million...sadly he doesnt so for all the other boxes he ticks then no more than £3 million for me.
I think 3 million is more realistic as well, 1 million plus 8 million is taking liberties!
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baloos
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Feb 15 2010, 02:15 PM
Post #99
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- pooley
- Feb 13 2010, 11:30 PM
Chucho - 10 / 27 = 37% Gardner - 1 / 3 = 33% Jerome - 7 / 22 = 31% philips - 4 / 14 = 28% Bowyer - 8 / 29 = 27% Seb - 7 / 27 = 26% fadds - 6 / 27 = 22% ridge - 4 / 22 = 18% Parnaby - 1 / 8 = 12% carsley - 1 / 8 = 12% Dann - 2 / 24 = 8% O'connor - 1 / 12 = 8% carr - 2 / 28 = 7% fahey - 2 / 26 = 7% fergie - 2 / 29 = 6%
Pooley - well done on the stats analysis, interesting stuff.
I was wondering how many games we had lost in all competitions when Chucho had started a game, so I went and looked.
We have lost 9 games this season (league and Cups) - Chucho only started in 2 of these, Chelsea away and Bolton home.
And the only game we have lost when Jerome and Chuco have started together was Chelsea. I agree that both these players preformances were below average for Premier League strikers on Saturday. But they must be doing something right and contributing to our team's fantastic season to have been involved in so few loses.
We are all aware that we need a better quality younger finisher brought to Blues in the summer. But I would sign Chucho as well, he has the potential to be a really good Premier League player. At his best, he causes problems for even the best teams, he has quick feet, a good burst of pace and excellent movement. He is young, in his 1st season in England and been an important cog in the 'unbeatables'.
If we had a replacement on the bench to step in, he could probably do with a rest for a couple of games but we don't so he has to play. And I would pay the extra £5m or so required to bring him in permanently (plus some extra add-ons to make it £7m+). If we don't I reckon, long-term, we will regret it.
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Migster
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Feb 15 2010, 02:39 PM
Post #100
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- baloos
- Feb 15 2010, 02:15 PM
- pooley
- Feb 13 2010, 11:30 PM
Chucho - 10 / 27 = 37% Gardner - 1 / 3 = 33% Jerome - 7 / 22 = 31% philips - 4 / 14 = 28% Bowyer - 8 / 29 = 27% Seb - 7 / 27 = 26% fadds - 6 / 27 = 22% ridge - 4 / 22 = 18% Parnaby - 1 / 8 = 12% carsley - 1 / 8 = 12% Dann - 2 / 24 = 8% O'connor - 1 / 12 = 8% carr - 2 / 28 = 7% fahey - 2 / 26 = 7% fergie - 2 / 29 = 6%
Pooley - well done on the stats analysis, interesting stuff. I was wondering how many games we had lost in all competitions when Chucho had started a game, so I went and looked. We have lost 9 games this season (league and Cups) - Chucho only started in 2 of these, Chelsea away and Bolton home. And the only game we have lost when Jerome and Chuco have started together was Chelsea. I agree that both these players preformances were below average for Premier League strikers on Saturday. But they must be doing something right and contributing to our team's fantastic season to have been involved in so few loses. We are all aware that we need a better quality younger finisher brought to Blues in the summer. But I would sign Chucho as well, he has the potential to be a really good Premier League player. At his best, he causes problems for even the best teams, he has quick feet, a good burst of pace and excellent movement. He is young, in his 1st season in England and been an important cog in the 'unbeatables'. If we had a replacement on the bench to step in, he could probably do with a rest for a couple of games but we don't so he has to play. And I would pay the extra £5m or so required to bring him in permanently (plus some extra add-ons to make it £7m+). If we don't I reckon, long-term, we will regret it.
True that. Don't let the facts get in the way of a biased opinion.
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