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Defensive Weakness; being exposed now
Topic Started: Mar 21 2010, 08:28 PM (663 Views)
Keith Bowker
Peter Enckelman
[ *  *  * ]
I always felt when the unbeaten run was ongoing that Dann/Johnson were punching well above their weight.

What most pundits who were praising them failed to point out was that they only excelled in what I'd call 'alamo' situations ie ball slung into the box, defending deep and getting anything they can in the way to stop it. Crosses into box = meat and drink for the two centre backs.

However, we're now seeing the shortcomings that you might expect from a couple of players who've stepped up from the championship. When there's room in front of them, decisions to make on whether to commit etc and players running at them they're being exposed.

eg Piquionne for Pompey's second goal in the Cup defeat at Pompey and Bent yesterday for Sunderland's second when he went past his man with ease to score.

Don't want to be over-critical but I fear what Arsenal might do to the pair of them on the counter.

Still, it's no different with John Terry. Brilliant trenches man in 'alamo' situations but totally susceptible in one on ones and when players get behind him. Will probably be England's downfall this summer.



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blueandwhitearmy
Martin Taylor
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the weakness is probably ridgewell who i think has done brilliant when you think he isnt a left back. hes been a brilliant professional and not complained and just got on with things, hes a credit to blues, its very harsh to criticise dann and johnson who in my opinion have been unbelievable this season and are coming to terms with the premier league, they have proven they are premier league players, get a good left back in and a player to replace carr when he retires and i think we'll be absolutely fine, who better for them to learn from than mccleish?
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tony123
Alex Govan
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We have played Chelsea and ManU and have not done too badly. The pass from Melbranque for Bent was excellent and put him in a very dangerous position.

The other goal didnt Dann misplace a pass and Bent seized it so it was sort of our own fault.

We did play them for 60 minutes after this and they didnt exactky take us apart.
In fact we battered themn and it was still the same defence.

They didnt have their best dat but I dont think you can right them off based on that 10 minutes.

:Blues:
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blondblunose
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Paul Tait
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Keith Bowker
Mar 21 2010, 08:28 PM
Will probably be England's downfall this summer.

That'll be something fun to look forward to...

:whistle:
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samuk
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
they have performed soo well for the majority of this season, i always thought maybe it would take its toll on them later on in the season afterall it is there first season in prem.
when mistakes are made and we play badly good players will learn from it and i think dann/johnson with the help of mcleish will look back and work hard to not let them mistakes happen again.

i think we have such high expectations of them people jump the gun as soon as 1 thing goes wrong.

i bet many defenders have struggled with bent aswell!!
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pooley
The Icon
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I agree and have said ths all season.

Big balls into the box = bread and butter for them. Thats what they faced in the chamionship. However like you said when there is space around they are a little lost. Im not conserned. They have improved imeasurabley since coming to us (dann especially) and will continue to do so. In a season or two they will be 3 times the players they are now, and international regulars (dann certainly - not sure re johnson due to age)
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Keith Bowker
Peter Enckelman
[ *  *  * ]
pooley
Mar 21 2010, 08:55 PM
I agree and have said ths all season.

Big balls into the box = bread and butter for them. Thats what they faced in the chamionship. However like you said when there is space around they are a little lost. Im not conserned. They have improved imeasurabley since coming to us (dann especially) and will continue to do so. In a season or two they will be 3 times the players they are now, and international regulars (dann certainly - not sure re johnson due to age)

Not so sure. Dann has no pace, ditto Johnson.
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Holmsie
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Frank Worthington
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Keith Bowker
Mar 21 2010, 08:28 PM
I always felt when the unbeaten run was ongoing that Dann/Johnson were punching well above their weight.

What most pundits who were praising them failed to point out was that they only excelled in what I'd call 'alamo' situations ie ball slung into the box, defending deep and getting anything they can in the way to stop it. Crosses into box = meat and drink for the two centre backs.

However, we're now seeing the shortcomings that you might expect from a couple of players who've stepped up from the championship. When there's room in front of them, decisions to make on whether to commit etc and players running at them they're being exposed.

eg Piquionne for Pompey's second goal in the Cup defeat at Pompey and Bent yesterday for Sunderland's second when he went past his man with ease to score.

Don't want to be over-critical but I fear what Arsenal might do to the pair of them on the counter.

Still, it's no different with John Terry. Brilliant trenches man in 'alamo' situations but totally susceptible in one on ones and when players get behind him. Will probably be England's downfall this summer.

a good point made but like you said it happens to john terry who is arguably the best centre half in the world. Whether its him or rio ferdinand/vidic, defenders will get caught out with pure pace being ran at them when theyre on the back foot - ala piquionne and bent.

Theyve had a long season and all the players are starting to show signs of tiredness, fair play to them i say, there was no way they could have kept it up ALL season long...
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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I'm yet to see a defense in the Premier League - which is the best league in the world - cope sufficiently with Cameron Jerome throughout the whole of the 90 minutes (i.e., not getting in behind them once).

Our back two are magnificent and I see no weakness there. Any defense is susceptible to pace as mentioned before.
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pooley
The Icon
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Keith Bowker
Mar 21 2010, 09:53 PM
pooley
Mar 21 2010, 08:55 PM
I agree and have said ths all season.

Big balls into the box = bread and butter for them. Thats what they faced in the chamionship. However like you said when there is space around they are a little lost. Im not conserned. They have improved imeasurabley since coming to us (dann especially) and will continue to do so. In a season or two they will be 3 times the players they are now, and international regulars (dann certainly - not sure re johnson due to age)

Not so sure. Dann has no pace, ditto Johnson.

neither has terry or upson
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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Upson has a massive amount of pace. He was the second quickest player in the Arsenal squad back in 2002 - with only Thierry Henry being faster.
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fozzylou
Geoff Horsfield
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Both Dann and Johnson started the season not 100% fit and it took them some time to get upto speed. After this period they have performed miracles in my opinion but of late have fallen away some (fatigue and mental tiredness).

They have not missed ca game and as such seems to be running on empty which is understandable considering the work they've had to do.

Yes Dann was poor yesterday, so what, i'd be worried id he'd had 5,6,7 or 8 games like that but it's just 1.

Both Johnson and Dann will be better and stronger next season having had the opportunity to understand the requirements needed to suceed in the Prem.

Tiredness is probably due to the mental lapses of late, nowt to woory about.

Well don RJ and SD this season you've been a rock along with Hart, Carr and even Agent Ridge filling in at leftback.
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jj22
Kenny Burns
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blueandwhitearmy
Mar 21 2010, 08:38 PM
the weakness is probably ridgewell who i think has done brilliant when you think he isnt a left back. hes been a brilliant professional and not complained and just got on with things, hes a credit to blues, its very harsh to criticise dann and johnson who in my opinion have been unbelievable this season and are coming to terms with the premier league, they have proven they are premier league players, get a good left back in and a player to replace carr when he retires and i think we'll be absolutely fine, who better for them to learn from than mccleish?

Im sorry but Ridgewell is just an easy target as he is playing out of position. If he was bought as a left back at the start of the season everyone would be happy with him.
Okay now and again he comes unstuck against tricky wingers but so do most full backs. Carr has had a great season but for me Ridgewell has been even better.
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lowdham bluenose
Joe Bradford
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Keith Bowker
Mar 21 2010, 08:28 PM
I always felt when the unbeaten run was ongoing that Dann/Johnson were punching well above their weight.

What most pundits who were praising them failed to point out was that they only excelled in what I'd call 'alamo' situations ie ball slung into the box, defending deep and getting anything they can in the way to stop it. Crosses into box = meat and drink for the two centre backs.

However, we're now seeing the shortcomings that you might expect from a couple of players who've stepped up from the championship. When there's room in front of them, decisions to make on whether to commit etc and players running at them they're being exposed.

eg Piquionne for Pompey's second goal in the Cup defeat at Pompey and Bent yesterday for Sunderland's second when he went past his man with ease to score.

Don't want to be over-critical but I fear what Arsenal might do to the pair of them on the counter.

Still, it's no different with John Terry. Brilliant trenches man in 'alamo' situations but totally susceptible in one on ones and when players get behind him.

Excellent post KeithBowker.

Your comparison to JT is good but JT shoes-in and survives by having a natural quality footballing CB next to him - Carvellho at Chelsea and Ferdinand with England.

Maybe we need a "silky" centreback to partner RJ or SD. However given time RJ and SD might be the perfect match. I can't se RJ improving technically but SD has certainly showed some football skills beyond his "Alamo" defending.
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grumpyoldman100
Alex Govan
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For debutants in the Premier League both Johnson and Dann have been brilliant for us and their partnership has been one of the reasons why we are in the top half of the league.

Every single football commentator or writer has praised them. I don't think I've read or heard a single bad report.

McLeish said himself a couple of weeks back that they would find it difficult to keep up the standard for the whole season and maybe the matches are now beginning to catch them up.

There are going to be matches where you concede sloppy goals but that's football. I still maintain that Sunderland's first goal was lucky. Carr made a great block tackle and the ball fell very kindly right on to Bent's foot.

Talking of bad defending how much space did Man Utd give Torres for his goal yesterday.
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pooley
The Icon
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grumpyoldman100
Mar 22 2010, 10:59 AM
For debutants in the Premier League both Johnson and Dann have been brilliant for us and their partnership has been one of the reasons why we are in the top half of the league.

Every single football commentator or writer has praised them. I don't think I've read or heard a single bad report.

McLeish said himself a couple of weeks back that they would find it difficult to keep up the standard for the whole season and maybe the matches are now beginning to catch them up.

There are going to be matches where you concede sloppy goals but that's football. I still maintain that Sunderland's first goal was lucky. Carr made a great block tackle and the ball fell very kindly right on to Bent's foot.

Talking of bad defending how much space did Man Utd give Torres for his goal yesterday.

it was a bad weekend for defenders

Look how wolves left carew alone on the edge of the 6 yard box and then wolves' first when a simple ball came into the box and no-one folowed the runner.
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antoinette
Geoff Horsfield
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The defence need a rest, Tiredness is setting in.
The squad is not large enough quality wise.

:Blues: :Blues:
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stevio11
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Alex Govan
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I thought that Young Dann just had an off day and helped towards 2 of sunderlands goals. Don't be too hard on them and suspect Alex will have noticed and will be planning for next season.
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birmingham200
Geoff Horsfield
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on the uefa a course they say that good players can play 10 games at the top of their form and internationals about 15 before form dips etc

our players have played out of their skin for most of the season
apart from chelsea (was there) in the league we had chances v west ham ( was there) fulham and sunderland we had 18 to their 9

we have the 7th best defence in the league
i dont know what people on this board expect ..i really dont...


Pld W D L F A GD GFA GAA PpG Pts
1 Aston Villa (7) 29 13 11 5 41 24 17 1.41 0.82 1.72 50
2 Manchester United (1) 31 22 3 6 72 25 47 2.32 0.80 2.22 69
3 Chelsea (3) 30 20 5 5 70 28 42 2.33 0.93 2.16 65
4 Tottenham Hotspur (4) 30 16 7 7 55 29 26 1.83 0.96 1.83 55
5 Liverpool (6) 31 15 6 10 50 32 18 1.61 1.03 1.64 51
6 Arsenal (2) 31 21 4 6 73 33 40 2.35 1.06 2.16 67
7 Birmingham City (9) 30 12 8 10 31 34 -3 1.03 1.13 1.46 44
8 Fulham (10) 30 10 8 12 33 34 -1 1.10 1.13 1.26 38


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DEdblue
Paul Tait
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blueandwhitearmy
Mar 21 2010, 08:38 PM
the weakness is probably ridgewell who i think has done brilliant when you think he isnt a left back. hes been a brilliant professional and not complained and just got on with things, hes a credit to blues, its very harsh to criticise dann and johnson who in my opinion have been unbelievable this season and are coming to terms with the premier league, they have proven they are premier league players, get a good left back in and a player to replace carr when he retires and i think we'll be absolutely fine, who better for them to learn from than mccleish?

No don't blame Ridgewell, the weakness is what was our great strength,Johnson and Dann had a little bit of jitters...........
They'll be back, leave Ridgewell there,offers a good defence play and will attack.......scores goals too.
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blueandwhitearmy
Martin Taylor
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i wasnt at all intending the make it sound like i was slagging ridgewell off, he has been brilliant, however surely when we play the better teams we need a proper left back? to have someone of ridgewells calibre to cover or start is tremendous, im certainly not knocking him for this season but i just think we need to get a proper left back to shore it up that extra bit
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jj22
Kenny Burns
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blueandwhitearmy
Mar 22 2010, 10:12 PM
i wasnt at all intending the make it sound like i was slagging ridgewell off, he has been brilliant, however surely when we play the better teams we need a proper left back? to have someone of ridgewells calibre to cover or start is tremendous, im certainly not knocking him for this season but i just think we need to get a proper left back to shore it up that extra bit

In my opinion he is a proper left back
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DEdblue
Paul Tait
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In my opinion he is a proper left back
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tony123
Alex Govan
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I think it's quite healthy that we are going nuts over letting two goals in to Sunderland. Just shows what a rarity this is and how well the boys have done.

We should maintian this mentality it will stand us in good stead for the future.

The point is though that the defence our rock let us down but in response we came firing back. Okay we didnt quite have enough but we made more than a fist of it. There will some bad days at the office just ask Chelsea, with all their money and might.

:Blues:
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mad4theblues
Alex Govan
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Being honest would there really be all this fuss going on if Gordon wasn't having a fantastic game and we won the game 3-2? Probably not

Johnson and Dann have been the bedrock to our season being so successful, everyone has there off days, even the likes of Ferdinand and Terry. Dann was poor on the day, but that takes nothing away from Bent who took both goals very well

Blues responded extremely well and were all over Sunderland in the 2nd half, were just pushing forward too much in the end and conceded which can happen to anyone pushing for goals

Hopefully the pair will be back to there best against Blackburn this Wednesday, and espically against the Gunners this weekend
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