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| Mcleish Is He Ruthless? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 25 2010, 12:47 PM (526 Views) | |
| tony123 | Mar 25 2010, 12:47 PM Post #1 |
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Alex Govan
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As most on here know I am a massive fans of McLeish. He excellent man management teams and the way he has set up the team I feel has been excellent. For he first time though I have been disappointed in his reaction to a game namely Blackburn. I appreciate we can take positives from the game we went 1-0 down early on and once more had to dig in and battle for a result. We got on level terms but then lost out to another Dunn goal. McLeish has been fair to his players saying the they battled hard and didnt give up and they are not "putting down tools" now we have secure premier league status. I totally agree and I am proud the lads kept going last night but... There is no point in running your backside off for lose 90 minutes to lose a game. I appreciate we had every intention of trying to get something out of the game. But we must be ruthless. McLeish must be ruthless it is the only way Birmingham City will change from a yo-yo club to one which is consolidated in the premier league. We can't allow second best to start appearing acceptable. We can't play well but then say oh it doesnt matter we didnt get any points. It does matter. For us there must be the world of difference between coming 12th and 13th just like there is a world of differnce between coming 1st and 2nd. We played well in which case a draw or a win is what is expected and if we didnt get that we let ourselves down. If we want to leave the Championship behind us we must be ruthless and that starts with McLeish. |
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| Willie | Mar 25 2010, 12:54 PM Post #2 |
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Willie
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So taking into account our small squad how do you propose he changes it. Being ruthless with this squad at this stage of the season would imo do more harm than good. even if he had the personnell avaliable to change things. |
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| stevio11 | Mar 25 2010, 12:57 PM Post #3 |
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Alex Govan
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I think Alex has his own style of management and as a scottish manger,I would think he is ruthless in the dressing room when needed. I would imagine that he knows the limits of the current squad and so feels that they are doing all they can, something us fans may not agree with in certain games but I would like to think that as the squad improves and we progress,he will ask for much more from his players and if they don't deliver then he will re-place. AM is someone who I think we can trust in to build us a good squad which can hopefully keep us in the prem for years to come and maybe a cup to win butit's also vital that the players believe they can as well. |
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| jj22 | Mar 25 2010, 12:59 PM Post #4 |
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Kenny Burns
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You say you want him to be ruthless though but how does that work? A lot of people of forgetting Blackburn are a strong team at home, i didnt think we played great but i though we deserved a draw! With regards to McLeish i cant understand why he drops Benitez....McFadden and Jerome does just not work we have seen this everytime he does it, and when Benitez comes back in everyone agrees we look much better (Sunderland at home, Portsmouth away). I cant see how Fahey is keeping his place either! And i know things can change so quickly in a match but imo he does not act quick enough from the bench with substitutions to change games, we had just got back level but were gettin over run with there midfield 3, we needed an extra midfielder on to match them up. Then we concede but wait nearly 10mins to bring on an extra forward. An when we do we bring off Jerome who wasnt having the best of games but least he can challenge Samba and Jones in the air unlike Phillips and Jerome who are about half his size! |
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| B25 YEWTREE LOYAL | Mar 25 2010, 01:19 PM Post #5 |
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Alex Govan
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to ask how he is meant to be ruthless and then proceed to tell us what mcleish should have done all in one post :applause: |
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| tony123 | Mar 25 2010, 05:12 PM Post #6 |
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Alex Govan
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On MOTD2 Hodgeson was livid with his forward for missing the target. Even though they had got a good result in Europe days earlier. As Dixon pointed out good managers will always ask for more. It doesnt matter what has happened until now. The question is how do we do in the current game. Im not righting the lads off or McLeish but they have set expectations now that they can cut it in this league and we can never let them think they can fall below these standards. The Vile "bless them" have a mentality that they are above being a chamapionshp side. They have had seasons where they have struggled but they have fought their way out of it just like Everton and Totenham do when they have bad seasons by their standards. If we want to properly consolidate in the prem like our rivals Vile. We must embark on a strategy that bottom 3 is not good enough. We are no longer a bottom 3 side. Wec have proved that and we must push on now or fall for trap of seeing us in a dogfight next season now that our honeymoon season is over. We cant entertain this mentality just as Ferguson has sleepless nights over every lost point because it may cost hom the league title. We must do the same and when we play well away against teams we compete with but fail to take points we must feel aggrieved. We can't be cosy Birmingham City any more punching above our weight a plucky little club. We must be ruthless and if we get the chance to get points we must take them. Points mean prizes and we want every place we can get. I still have to regard McLeish and his team very much in credit for what he has and they achieved but we can't allow disappointments and the number of losses to grow. It can become a bad habit. :Blues: |
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| PartisanBCFC | Mar 25 2010, 05:59 PM Post #7 |
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Jack Wiseman
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Why don't you actually ask him in person I think you'd find your answer On Sky last night he admitted he ''Kicked a few backsides in there "" A manager can only do so much apart from run on to the pitch and try and do it all himself KRO |
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| tony123 | Mar 25 2010, 07:36 PM Post #8 |
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Alex Govan
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I am a fan of McLeish I have supported him as much if not more than anyone else on this forum. I didnt expect him to score a goal. I didnt expect him to save a shot. I do expect him to provide leadership. We were playing well and that means we must get points. If we dont we have failed. There will be some days we have a bad day at the office okay we can try and take the positives like at Sunderland. But last night we got back on level terms and let the game slip again. If we discard a precious away point which is what we did okay it happens but we cannot condone it. 6 months ago we would have killed for such a point. It's almost as though it doesn't matter now. It does matter I want Every point we can get, Every one!! I dont expect him to castrate the entire team but the reaction should be giving away a game after you have fought to get back on terms is not acceptable. Yes it happens but it shouldnt and in no way can we allow the team to feel that just playing well is good enough. :Blues: |
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| midland red | Mar 25 2010, 07:42 PM Post #9 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Mcleish Is He Ruthless? Posted Image Yes **thumbup |
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| ESONEULB | Mar 25 2010, 07:47 PM Post #10 |
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Bluenose Ad Vitam = Bluenose For Life
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more important for a lot of fans on here and at the game...We need to believe we can win as well.....a lot of fans go to watch blues expecting to lose....Now that is not on... :Blues: |
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| midland red | Mar 25 2010, 07:59 PM Post #11 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Seriously ? Tony Pullis is Ruthless and desperate. Bruce could be ruthless, especially when appointing blame in public. Ancelotti, Mourhino, Ranieri, Gullit all showed different aspects of ruthlessness at Chelsea. Even Benitez has a ruthless side. What good does it do? Some managers are builders and not instant-fix merchants. Is ruthless putting yourself and any criticism ahead of the team? Then yes, manager's like Wenger, Ferguson and McLeish always put the team first. OK - Ferguson in 20 odd years had one hairdryer day - Barry Fry had one a month. Does ruthless get results? No. Lets name one sucessful ruthless manager? **thumbup |
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| PartisanBCFC | Mar 25 2010, 10:44 PM Post #12 |
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Jack Wiseman
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Brian Clough RIP Posted Image |
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| Lucky | Mar 26 2010, 06:35 AM Post #13 |
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Bob Latchford
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Ruthless or decision making, Big difference in my opinion, Brian Clough was both but in todays climate his style would not work, Fergie has both and uses it to the full extent but sails close to the wind,but his trophy cabinet says he is right,, Benitez is a bad decision maker in my opinion, Mcleish makes some bad decisions and his timing with his decisions is poor, But as someone else said your squad size makes the decision for you sometimes, Im not Alez biggest fan but he has gone about things in a good way this season so im coming around slowly, The summer will be a massive time for him and the board,it will show the direction we are headed. |
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| pooley | Mar 26 2010, 08:54 AM Post #14 |
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The Icon
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he was just rude and was only successful because of the vast amount of money (for the time) given to him. He won nothing managing either hartlepool or brighton & hove. He won 2 league chamionships with derby and then won the rest with forest where, like I say he was the first money manager, todays equivelnt of what man city are now and what chelsea were when abramovich took over |
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| tony123 | Mar 26 2010, 09:17 AM Post #15 |
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Alex Govan
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Pooley. I find it hard to believe you say this as somone who knows somethig sabout football as it appears completely wide of the mark. Clough had his own ways of doing things. He was a strict disciplinarian and expected his players to act respectfully at all times. I think you may be mistaking rudeness for arrogance. He would never use bad language. He insisted that his teams played passing, attacking football and would discipline his own players if they failed to show respect for the referee. He was a motivator who instisted on excellence from his players indeed they strived to do it for him. This is comes from statements I have heard made by his own players in particular John Robertson who after getting a "thumbs up" during a game for good play would be spurred on to get another one. In terms of being a money manager he went to Leeds the biggest club in tha land wit the most money at the time and told them their "dirty" method of play had to stop. Money had nothing to do with it. When challenged by the board he would rather resign than take the paypacket and work with the Leeds team. His success basically came from imo strong leadership, man management in particular inspiring players to believe in themselves. The ability to attract good talent and tactical knowledge. In particular the ability to inspire players to believe in themselves is one of the single most reasons for success in any walk of life. In his biography Charlton gives the same strength to Alf Ramsay and feels this is one of the main reasons why England were able to win the 1966 world cup. |
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| pooley | Mar 26 2010, 09:21 AM Post #16 |
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The Icon
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The money aspect came while at forest mate. If he wanted a player he got them cost no object |
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| Bluediver | Mar 26 2010, 09:26 AM Post #17 |
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Alex Govan
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The word I would be more likely to use to describe Mcleish is 'focussed'. He has the look of a man who knows exactly what he needs and he is determined to see his goal through to the end. Now, I'd say that there is a subtle difference between being 'focussed' and being 'ruthless'. For example, a focussed man might want to achieve his aim in a way that doesn't upset too many people; whereas a ruthless man wouldn't care who he upset in reaching his goal. No, Mcleish isn't ruthless. And I'm perfectly content with that. |
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| tony123 | Mar 26 2010, 09:35 AM Post #18 |
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Alex Govan
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I understand what you are saying to a point. I am aware that there was certain goings on regarding money. Rumour has it money was used to some extent as enticements to get certain players to join. However I dont feel you can put his sucess purely down to money. I think this is really not on. Given the players he had winning the European cup has was a significant feat he hardly had the best players in the world playing for him at the time. Perhaps two world class players Francis and Shilton. Gemill was also a very strong mdfielder. But also later on when taking his team to wembley for FA cup finals which I grant you he never won. This was also achieved after Notts Forest had been surpassed on money terms by other clubs. Most people who have some knowledge of football give Clough considerable credit and respect. Many wanted him to manage England but were aware he would have upset the FA. It is odd that you fail to support this generally accepted point of view but you are entitled to your opinion. |
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| lowdham bluenose | Mar 26 2010, 09:49 AM Post #19 |
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Joe Bradford
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Pooley I would delete that post as you are off the mark factually and as a consequence it has made you look a bit daft. At Derby he took a small town club from the second tier to top tier champions. He did not spend much money - he just new how to build a team and how to get them to play. He did it again at Nottm Forest. A slghtly bigger club and again he took them from the lower second tier - this time to top tier champions and European champions. He did not spend huge money getting there - he only spent the £1m on TF after he and the club earned it by winning the league. Clough and Taylor were the master team-builders, master motivators, master tacticians and masters at their trade. |
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| West Heath Blue | Mar 26 2010, 10:09 AM Post #20 |
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Unregistered
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:LMAO: *Points gun at foot* FIRE!!!!!!!!! |
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| Oby | Mar 26 2010, 10:14 AM Post #21 |
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Mikael Forssell
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What Lowdy said **thumbup :blink: Jeez I need a lie down ..zz.. |
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| pooley | Mar 26 2010, 11:51 AM Post #22 |
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The Icon
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what about the clubs he won nothing at then? The truley grat managers like fergie win at many clubs, jose is another in recent times who has won at different clubs |
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| tony123 | Mar 26 2010, 12:26 PM Post #23 |
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Alex Govan
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He was successful at two clubs Derby and Notts Forest. Ferguson was successful at two clubs Aberdeen and ManUtd. Clough was at Leeds for 4 weeks and Hartlepool. Accordibng to wiki "guiding Hartlepools to a finish of eighth in Division 4 in their first full season" I would deem this as successful just as McLeish has been successful this season but we have been no higher than 8th. |
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| tony123 | Mar 26 2010, 04:52 PM Post #24 |
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Alex Govan
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"Whatever happens, it has been a fantastic season for us and we won't go into the summer upset if the next seven games don't go for us." Alex if you dont go about things with the ambition of fundementally transforming Blues into a premier league passing out fit. You wont get it. :banghead: |
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| PartisanBCFC | Mar 26 2010, 05:14 PM Post #25 |
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Jack Wiseman
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Pooley .....you need to quit while we are ahead, mate Clough is pure legend along with Shankly, Busby and Revie As lowdy said he actually took Hartlepool up the league Didn't do nowt at Brighton, true but he didn't spend too long there Only spent 44 days at Leeds Utd (succeeded Revie which was going to be a 'huge ask' for any boss) where the players drove him out FCS ? Forest and Derby....2 provincial struggling and broke 2nd tier sides, turned both into English champions and took Forest to two European Cups.....Yes, one more than the Vile Like lowhdam said, he worked on limited budgets, the TF money was proceeds and hugely increased revenue from the 1st Div championship title and a League Cup triumph Players like Kenny Burns, Anderson, Lloyd, Gemmill and Withe were shrewdly and wisely signed as bargain buys and he patiently worked with Roberston, O'Neill and Woodcock who were already at Forest in 1975 when he took over and turned them all into top class players Leave it out, mate :LMAO: --------------------------- |
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