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Why I Don't Buy The Birmingham Mail
Topic Started: Jun 3 2010, 05:19 PM (2,493 Views)
PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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bluenose abroad
Jun 4 2010, 08:04 PM

This bloke may well be guilty, I don't know. I just think it's wrong to play judge, jury & executioner when you know nothing about the case.

Look, ba, all I can go on is what is presented before me and BTW I've read several newspaper reports on this incident and as I've very politely asked two or three times now can anyone shed some more light on why they think this guy is innocent ??

OK, a British copper called the trial a sham, point taken but why is Gary Mann seemingly the only one being jailed ?.......Although I don't even know for sure if he is the only one, nobody seems to want to divuldge more info about this case and this individual .....well apart from the fact he lives all the way down in Kent now yet still follows the Blues thanks to some over eager journalist pointing that rather irrelevant fact out to us :boohoo:

Seems the Portuguese authorities see it much more differently and seem to view whatever this guy may have allegedly done as much more serious than what others may have been accused of

My own gut reaction (based on what I've read so far) tells me the guy is a thug whose behaviour may have kicked off something more serious but if not , I'd be only too glad to admit I was wrong about him
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northside blue
Frank Worthington
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 4 2010, 10:35 PM
northside blue
Jun 4 2010, 03:59 PM
  From your post you clearly know nothing about the case, just a suggestion but maybe before condeming people you should at least have the decency to do a little research.

And you do then ??

Well please enlighten us and can you give us a baton blow by baton blow account including the excessive force used by local police simply doing their jobs....just as British bobbies do to restore law and order

First of all.....can you answer the perfectly reasonable questions I raised in my previous post further up


FYI I know the Portuguese Police can seem a very rude and intolerable bunch, I've been to The Algarve twice......I was only double parking once and I had one local copper going ape***t at me .......but he didn't have to get out the mace and pepper spray For Gawd's Sake ......Oh ! and I moved the car in a hurry .....maybe they do things a little different down there .....When in a foreign country it's sometimes best to respect their citizens, their culture and their customs

----------------------

You asked if he had even returned to Portugal which is why i stated you clearly know nothing about his situation **thumbup of course i dont know the absolute facts as i wasen't there, i do know that no evidence whatsoever was produced apart from the word of the police though so if thats the way the system works over there its hardly surpising he has been found guilty lol, thank god we rely on a little more evidence than the word of a copper otherwise every person ever nicked would be guilty. As for your remarks about previous convictions does that obviously makes him guilty in your mind & as for him following his country in portugal thats his buisness how he funded it & nothing to do with a busy body like yourself. :rolleyes:
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West Heath Blue
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 5 2010, 06:03 AM
bluenose abroad
Jun 4 2010, 08:04 PM

This bloke may well be guilty, I don't know. I just think it's wrong to play judge, jury & executioner when you know nothing about the case.

Look, ba, all I can go on is what is presented before me and BTW I've read several newspaper reports on this incident and as I've very politely asked two or three times now can anyone shed some more light on why they think this guy is innocent ??

OK, a British copper called the trial a sham, point taken but why is Gary Mann seemingly the only one being jailed ?.......Although I don't even know for sure if he is the only one, nobody seems to want to divuldge more info about this case and this individual .....well apart from the fact he lives all the way down in Kent now yet still follows the Blues thanks to some over eager journalist pointing that rather irrelevant fact out to us :boohoo:

Seems the Portuguese authorities see it much more differently and seem to view whatever this guy may have allegedly done as much more serious than what others may have been accused of

My own gut reaction (based on what I've read so far) tells me the guy is a thug whose behaviour may have kicked off something more serious but if not , I'd be only too glad to admit I was wrong about him

From what is presented towards you? :LMAO:

And you have read lots of news paper reports on this? :LMAO:


Listen carefully
INNOCENT UNTILL PROVEN GUILTY
You can't seem to get your head around the FACT that the Fast track trial was a farce & a digrace, No evidence was presented, There were 2 interpreters between 12 of them. This came from a British Copper.

Wheres your evidence to say he was guilty? Reading Newspapers & a Gut reaction.
Have you just looked at him and then made your mind up?

As for Portuguese authorities? shut up will you man, ask Maddie McCanns parents about them ****s.

People who are prepared to spout off & be Judge and Jury based on gut feeling without any evidence are a real menace to society.

I would rather sit next to him at St Andrews than someone like you.






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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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West Heath Blue
Jun 5 2010, 07:25 AM
  As for Portuguese authorities? shut up will you man, ask Maddie McCanns parents about them ****s.


What on earth has the Maddie McCann case got to do with this ?? :LMAO: That could have happened in any country


Quote:
 
People who are prepared to spout off & be Judge and Jury based on gut feeling without any evidence are a real  menace to society.



No, people like Gary Mann are a menace to society and the fact he has a criminal record for two offences underlines that ......and I leave judges and juries to make up their own minds...Presumably this guy keeps appealing but they keep getting thrown out .....Why is that ?? Unfortunately I dont make the rules in the corridors of British Justice

Quote:
 
from The Birmingham Mail ...........Mann says he was drinking with friends in a bar in Albufeira when a riot involving football fans began in a nearby street. He was arrested, tried and convicted within 48 hours.


So you're really naive enough to believe some Portuguese copper stormed this bar, some distance away from the actaul riot, and picked out Gary Mann and then said ""Right Sonny, you're nicked ""


Quote:
 
  I would rather sit next to him at St Andrews than someone like you


The feeling is strictly mutual....why don't you go and sit next to Gary Mann in his Prison cell then........and let decent law abiding citizens enjoy their football at St Andrews

As for this innocent until proven guilty spiel......The guy was tried, found guilty and convicted in a foreign court of law ......His own trade union refused to support him....Why did the Portuguese authorities go to so much trouble to get him extradicted (an nobody else it seems) to serve his time if he is this 'Angel' you all paint in your minds ?? ..What is his MP or The British Government doing about it ?? From what I've read so far they don't seem to care , are not doing enough or would rather hide behind a lot of red tape so maybe there lies the real problem

Don't ever tell me to shut up.......Peope are allowed to express their opinions on this Forum and I'll say whatever I darned well like within Forum guidelines


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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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northside blue
Jun 5 2010, 04:24 AM
of course i dont know the absolute facts as i wasen't there, i do know that no evidence whatsoever was produced apart from the word of the police though so if thats the way the system works over there its hardly surpising he has been found guilty lol, thank god we rely on a little more evidence than the word of a copper otherwise every person ever nicked would be guilty.

In every courtroom in the world, sometimes the evidence of the Police is the only evidence produced.....After all, they are the ones tasked with apprehending 'offenders'

Yes, there are travesties in justice every day.....When the UK hung people for serious crimes prior to the early 60's quite a few innocent people were actaully executed as later evidence would crop up to clear their names ....That's why capital punishment was abolished

You're certainly no solicitior are you ??
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northside blue
Frank Worthington
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 5 2010, 08:11 PM
northside blue
Jun 5 2010, 04:24 AM
of course i dont know the absolute facts as i wasen't there, i do know that no evidence whatsoever was produced apart from the word of the police though so if thats the way the system works over there its hardly surpising he has been found guilty lol, thank god we rely on a little more evidence than the word of a copper otherwise every person ever nicked would be guilty.

In every courtroom in the world, sometimes the evidence of the Police is the only evidence produced.....After all, they are the ones tasked with apprehending 'offenders'

Yes, there are travesties in justice every day.....When the UK hung people for serious crimes prior to the early 60's quite a few innocent people were actaully executed as later evidence would crop up to clear their names ....That's why capital punishment was abolished

You're certainly no solicitior are you ??

I'm not a old mother hen who spends his life ( judging by the amounts of posts/threads you start)on the internet either **thumbup
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West Heath Blue
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Oh prati give yourself a shake will you eh.

No one is claimimg he is an Angel are they.

As per usual you completely miss the point :LMAO:

Your argument is very weak and quite laughable to be honset.

I will ask you again where was the cast iron evidence to prove his guilt.

I suspect you will come back with some toe curlingly rubbish about th Portuguese authorities.

The fact is i am right & and you cant accept it.

Hush now

Good lad **thumbup

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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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West Heath Blue
Jun 6 2010, 10:21 AM
The fact is i am right & and you cant accept it.

Hush now

Good lad **thumbup

Now that is a speech even Adolf Hitler would have proud of


I bet you're the boss in your household, eh ??



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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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northside blue
Jun 6 2010, 09:00 AM
  I'm not a old mother hen who spends his life ( judging by the amounts of posts/threads you start)on the internet  either  **thumbup

Let's leave my c0ck out of this


And the amount of threads I start simply underlines my eternal loyalty to Birmingham City Football Club....what's your point ?

I'm fairly sure I've contributed more to the club than Gary Mann anyway


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PartisanBCFC
Jun 5 2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:
 
People who are prepared to spout off & be Judge and Jury based on gut feeling without any evidence are a real  menace to society.



No, people like Gary Mann are a menace to society and the fact he has a criminal record for two offences underlines that

Quote:
 
from The Birmingham Mail ...........Mann says he was drinking with friends in a bar in Albufeira when a riot involving football fans began in a nearby street. He was arrested, tried and convicted within 48 hours.


So you're really naive enough to believe some Portuguese copper stormed this bar, some distance away from the actaul riot



You see parti, after your post saying all you can go on is the information you've got, your own translation is affecting your mind set.

A 'nearby' bar is translated by yourself as 'some distance away'.
That's distorting the facts, facts that you know nothing about.

You then say you'd be happy to be proved wrong about him, yet in your next post he is referred to as a 'menace to society'.

If he is guilty then I hope they throw the book at him, I really do. But I will not pre-judge anybody, nor should you. To attempt to cajole other members of this board into 'disowning' him, based on a few newspaper cuttings, is just not cricket.
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Oby
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Mikael Forssell
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lowdham bluenose
Jun 4 2010, 08:32 AM
Premier League football clubs have progressed and are in the 21st Century. Neanderthal boneheads who still stick to Blues are holding us back.

Not Exactly right Lowdy, here is the Hooligan table for 2009, although Blues were in the Championship we were not even considered as a problem--

Premier League arrests table 2009

1. Manchester United - 185

2. Newcastle - 144

3. Everton - 139

4. Sunderland - 138

5. Arsenal - 133

6. Stoke City - 118

7. Chelsea - 102

8. Liverpool - 100

9. Manchester City - 82

10. Aston Villa - 77

11. Middlesbrough - 75

12. Tottenham Hotspur - 71

13. West Ham United - 65

14. Hull City - 61

15. Bolton Wanderers - 50

16. Blackburn Rovers - 31

17. Portsmouth - 31

18. West Brom - 26

19. Wigan Athletic - 23

20. Fulham - 13

Outside the Premier League, Leeds and Cardiff saw the most arrests with 127 and 89 respectively
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Des
Malcom Page
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As far as i can see the Birmingham mail goes out of its way to be balanced, everty Villa story has a blues story of the same size in the same edition. lads your getting paranoid isnt that how derek bird started!!
KRO
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SuttonBluenose
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I have to say that every paper will say what football team a hooligan supports, to put that club in the spotlight, and to get some more stories out of it. They're getting one here of us debating over it!

As long as these people are locked up, then football is better for the rest of us. Less fighting means that it will be safer getting home. I can think of Wet Spam at home, anyone remember all the trouble under the railway bridge by the cov road. Yeh I don't want to get caught up in that again.

Just think that they do this with every newspaper, and that every newspaper will say the club he supports. Don't worry about it. The Police will eventually sort it out. Or they will do their best.
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Alex Govan
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Parti

i mentioned that he was a firefighter as it is as important as the fact that he has been involved in football related violence.Not to paint him as a Saint or above the law.If you needed someone such as Gary Mann to save a relative or friend would you refuse his assistance on the grounds that he is a thug or bonehead.I have mentioned before that some of the very same players we have all cheered from the stands have been involved in football related violence whilst at Birmingham City...doesnt make it right for those that dont agree with it but its all about perspective and if you consider football hooliganism as such a terrible crime then you should also accept that there are those that will disagree...Drink Driving for me is a far more serious crime..but i wouldnt suggest that all banned drivers should be refused admittance to a football ground or a pub.

gary Mannwas deprived of rights that are the basic elements of justice and that sits well with you,even the guilty and the very guilty at that are allowed a proper defence.

The so called Portuguese police involved were crack Military Police that had just returned from a tour of Iraq and immediately sent to Police a resort full of Football Supporters...not a good mix and was the ONLY incident in the entire 4 weeks of the tournament.
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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Jun 7 2010, 10:33 AM
Parti

i mentioned that he was a firefighter as it is as important as the fact that he has been involved in football related violence.Not to paint him as a Saint or above the law.If you needed someone such as Gary Mann to save a relative or friend would you refuse his assistance on the grounds that he is a thug or bonehead.I have mentioned before that some of the very same players we have all cheered from the stands have been involved in football related violence whilst at Birmingham City...doesnt make it right for those that dont agree with it but its all about perspective and if you consider football hooliganism as such a terrible crime then you should also accept that there are those that will disagree...Drink Driving for me is a far more serious crime..but i wouldnt suggest that all banned drivers should be refused admittance to a football ground or a pub.

gary Mannwas deprived of rights that are the basic elements of justice and that sits well with you,even the guilty and the very guilty at that are allowed a proper defence.

The so called Portuguese police involved were crack Military Police that had just returned from a tour of Iraq and immediately sent to Police a resort full of Football Supporters...not a good mix and was the ONLY incident in the entire 4 weeks of the tournament.

Well said B25, and the fact that it was neerly 30 years since he was convicted of football related violence, people do change.
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Elvis
Paul Tait
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dr.nick
Jun 7 2010, 11:16 AM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Jun 7 2010, 10:33 AM
Parti

i mentioned that he was a firefighter as it is as important as the fact that he has been involved in football related violence.Not to paint him as a Saint or above the law.If you needed someone such as Gary Mann to save a relative or friend would you refuse his assistance on the grounds that he is a thug or bonehead.I have mentioned before that some of the very same players we have all cheered from the stands have been involved in football related violence whilst at Birmingham City...doesnt make it right for those that dont agree with it but its all about perspective and if you consider football hooliganism as such a terrible crime then you should also accept that there are those that will disagree...Drink Driving for me is a far more serious crime..but i wouldnt suggest that all banned drivers should be refused admittance to a football ground or a pub.

gary Mannwas deprived of rights that are the basic elements of justice and that sits well with you,even the guilty and the very guilty at that are allowed a proper defence.

The so called Portuguese police involved were crack Military Police that had just returned from a tour of Iraq and immediately sent to Police a resort full of Football Supporters...not a good mix and was the ONLY incident in the entire 4 weeks of the tournament.

Well said B25, and the fact that it was neerly 30 years since he was convicted of football related violence, people do change.

Nicely said Yew....

Also if it has been nearly 30 years surely under the Rehabilitation Act those convictions are now well and truly spent
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bluenose71
Martin Grainger
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Jun 4 2010, 10:57 AM
Mann, 52, a retired Kent firefighter, was arrested three hours after the riot in Albufeira on the Algarve and convicted within 24 hours under a fast-track process brought in for the championships. The court had one English-speaking interpreter, two lawyers representing 12 men and little opportunity for the accused to call witnesses.

Detective Constable Alan Rutter, an officer with Humberside police who attended the trial to advise Portuguese police on English supporters at Euro 2004, described the trial as a farce. He said there was no adequate interpretation and Mann did not understand most of the proceedings.


To the judge and jury on here, you make me sick.

What you do if you found yourself in this situation eh?????

Oh and unless you are completely squeaky clean you have no right to judge an innocent man.

dont know the guy or the full facts but if the above quote is correct it seems very unfair on him.i know nothing about the law and wonder if there is any way he could get a trial in england with all portugese "witnesses" giving evidence in an english courtroom.would give him a fairer chance of proving innocence or on the other side being found guilty.At least he would have a clearer idea of what was going on and what was being said.any one have any idea if this is legally possible?
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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
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bluenose71
Jun 7 2010, 04:06 PM
West Heath Blue
Jun 4 2010, 10:57 AM
Mann, 52, a retired Kent firefighter, was arrested three hours after the riot in Albufeira on the Algarve and convicted within 24 hours under a fast-track process brought in for the championships. The court had one English-speaking interpreter, two lawyers representing 12 men and little opportunity for the accused to call witnesses.

Detective Constable Alan Rutter, an officer with Humberside police who attended the trial to advise Portuguese police on English supporters at Euro 2004, described the trial as a farce. He said there was no adequate interpretation and Mann did not understand most of the proceedings.


To the judge and jury on here, you make me sick.

What you do if you found yourself in this situation eh?????

Oh and unless you are completely squeaky clean you have no right to judge an innocent man.

dont know the guy or the full facts but if the above quote is correct it seems very unfair on him.i know nothing about the law and wonder if there is any way he could get a trial in england with all portugese "witnesses" giving evidence in an english courtroom.would give him a fairer chance of proving innocence or on the other side being found guilty.At least he would have a clearer idea of what was going on and what was being said.any one have any idea if this is legally possible?

As far as I know if you comit a crime in another country you are tried in that country.
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West Heath Blue
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 7 2010, 03:43 AM
northside blue
Jun 6 2010, 09:00 AM
  I'm not a old mother hen who spends his life ( judging by the amounts of posts/threads you start)on the internet  either  **thumbup

Let's leave my c0ck out of this


And the amount of threads I start simply underlines my eternal loyalty to Birmingham City Football Club....what's your point ?

I'm fairly sure I've contributed more to the club than Gary Mann anyway


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Quote:
 
I'm fairly sure I've contributed more to the club than Gary Mann anyway


And you know this because errrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmm???????????

You're guessing?


Gutt Feeling?


You read it in the papers or on the Net :rolleyes:


You like to make assumptions without any real Facts **thumbup

Regards

Adolf





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PartisanBCFC
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Jack Wiseman
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dr.nick
Jun 7 2010, 12:18 PM
  As far as I know if you comit a crime in another country you are tried in that country.

Unless a country claims there wouldn't be a fair trial.....Best recent example were the Lockerbie Pan Am bombers who should have been tried in Scotland but it was moved to Holland on the demands of the Libyan Government

As I said before this guy's MP or the British Government haven't exacly moved mountains to assist him have they ??

As far as I'm concerned Gary Mann must have been doing something wrong and breaking the law to be singlehandedly picked out by Police and extradicted back to The Algarve to serve time ......Other fans involved in this riot were simply deported

That's my opinion and that's the last I'll comment on it

And I'm sure there's a lot more 'sensible' firefighters around Brum at the moment
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 8 2010, 12:10 AM

As far as I'm concerned Gary Mann must have been doing something wrong and breaking the law

With no evidence to back this up, you can really make this claim?
More muppetry.
Just as well you're over the other side of the pond, at least there's no chance of you ever being called up for jury service in the UK.
Judging by your bombastic posts on this thread attempting to get people 'onside', I shudder to think what you might do in a jury room.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
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Willie
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Willie
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 8 2010, 01:10 AM
dr.nick
Jun 7 2010, 12:18 PM
  As far as I know if you comit a crime in another country you are tried in that country.

Unless a country claims there wouldn't be a fair trial.....Best recent example were the Lockerbie Pan Am bombers who should have been tried in Scotland but it was moved to Holland on the demands of the Libyan Government

As I said before this guy's MP or the British Government haven't exacly moved mountains to assist him have they ??

As far as I'm concerned Gary Mann must have been doing something wrong and breaking the law to be singlehandedly picked out by Police and extradicted back to The Algarve to serve time ......Other fans involved in this riot were simply deported

That's my opinion and that's the last I'll comment on it

And I'm sure there's a lot more 'sensible' firefighters around Brum at the moment

Quote:
 
As far as I'm concerned Gary Mann must have been doing something wrong and breaking the law to be singlehandedly picked out by Police and extradicted back to The Algarve to serve time ......Other fans involved in this riot were simply deported


Is this the same portuguese police dept that have been severeley criticised over their investigation into the Madilene McCann dissapearence.

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PartisanBCFC
Jun 5 2010, 08:06 PM

What on earth has the Maddie McCann case got to do with this ?? :LMAO:


:rolleyes:
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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
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PartisanBCFC
Jun 8 2010, 12:10 AM
dr.nick
Jun 7 2010, 12:18 PM
  As far as I know if you comit a crime in another country you are tried in that country.

Unless a country claims there wouldn't be a fair trial.....Best recent example were the Lockerbie Pan Am bombers who should have been tried in Scotland but it was moved to Holland on the demands of the Libyan Government

As I said before this guy's MP or the British Government haven't exacly moved mountains to assist him have they ??

As far as I'm concerned Gary Mann must have been doing something wrong and breaking the law to be singlehandedly picked out by Police and extradicted back to The Algarve to serve time ......Other fans involved in this riot were simply deported

That's my opinion and that's the last I'll comment on it

And I'm sure there's a lot more 'sensible' firefighters around Brum at the moment

No they haven't because terms like football violence and hooligan were used , let's be honest hooligans to the media in this country is the lowest you can get. Even drug smugglers get better treatment than people who fight at a football match.

Sometimes I think this country has it's priorities the wrong way around.

Parti even you an educated man have convicted this bloke with no concreat evidence because he did something 30 years ago.
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dr.nick
Jun 8 2010, 06:09 AM

Parti even you an educated man

You're on the lash early, Nick.
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