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| Yanks Botch Hostage Rescue Attempt | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 12 2010, 05:01 PM (276 Views) | |
| baron von bluenose | Oct 12 2010, 05:01 PM Post #1 |
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Bob Latchford
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dunno why they would be involved but the outcome was enevitable are they called special forces because of the school they attended lets hope we never need rescuing http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/as...on-2102683.html |
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| dr.nick | Oct 12 2010, 06:53 PM Post #2 |
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Trevor Francis
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The problem with the yanks special forces are they're too gun ho, they have no disapline, our boys would have done it properly. |
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| Migster | Oct 13 2010, 07:18 AM Post #3 |
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Bob Latchford
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When you do stuff like this then you are going to be chucking "flashbangs" about, and sadly, sometimes they'll end up near the target because you're chucking them into a blind area. The Yanks aren't the greatest, but at least they're on our side. |
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| West Heath Blue | Oct 13 2010, 02:26 PM Post #4 |
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Unregistered
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Whats worse than being captured by the Taliban? Being rescued by the Americans. |
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| trev984 | Oct 13 2010, 02:34 PM Post #5 |
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Frank Worthington
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You guys who criticise should try doing it yourselves before criticising. Although, from what I've heard, if you are within throwing distance (grenade) I would have thought it unwise to throw a Fragmentation Grenade into an area where your hostage is. Surely a Stun Grenade, or similar would have been a better choice. |
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| Migster | Oct 13 2010, 02:36 PM Post #6 |
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Bob Latchford
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Yeah, that's what I was on about, a flashbang. Surely no-one lobbed a fragmentation grenade in there, or as I've heard them refered to as, an "orgy grenade", because everybody gets some. |
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| ringo182 | Oct 13 2010, 02:44 PM Post #7 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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i like the way the americans have tried to cover themselves by saying the explosion was caused by the last insurgent who was conviniently killed by his own bomb. i reckon there is alot more friendly fire deaths then get reported simply because those who make the mistake just lie. if everyone is dead then who can argue? if they knew where she was being held then why try to rush in and save her there and then? it's obvious that the insurgents will panic and fight which will cause more death and distruction then is needed. the americans need to learn to use a bit more diplomacy and not just run in a shoot everyone every time they get the sniff of a lead. thats what started this war in the first place :rolleyes: |
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| Migster | Oct 13 2010, 02:52 PM Post #8 |
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Bob Latchford
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Whenever I think of American clumsiness, I think of Waco. Plan A: "Let's go in and kick ass...". Several ATF agents dead. Days later... Plan B: "Let's go in WITH TANKS and kick ass...". Everyone dead. |
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| keepthecityblue | Oct 13 2010, 02:53 PM Post #9 |
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Frank Worthington
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I think its a little too easy to just slate the US soldiers They think that she may have been killed by an open explosive or explosive vest - which can be detonated by a flashbang. Rescue missions are notoriously hard - and to those that think everything can be solved by negotiation and talking...unfortunately it cannot. Some hostage takers take hostages with the eventual aim of killing them (eg Beslan school seige in Russia). |
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| ringo182 | Oct 13 2010, 03:35 PM Post #10 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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true, but it's much more likely to go wrong if you just run in shooting your guns, as it did in this instance. you have to give them the chance to end it peacefully before you use force. she could still be alive if they hadn't just rushed in with all guns blazing. |
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| proccy_blues | Oct 13 2010, 03:52 PM Post #11 |
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Joe Bradford
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if you think the yanks are bad, then we're (generally) no better. if anyone watched the recent series called "secret iraq" they would have been appalled how the british army left basra compared to how the yanks fared in bahgdad. it's easy to trash others and turn a blind eye when the truth is somewhat different. in this case she was going to be killed whatever happened, at least the yanks tried to rescue her |
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| baron von bluenose | Oct 13 2010, 06:40 PM Post #12 |
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Bob Latchford
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gonna correct you there proccy i shouldnt say to much but ive some special forces experience i know that you dont go in mob handed waving a star spangled banner, in fact firstly the hostage would have been made safe then the killing of the enemy would take place our special forces are not soldiers as such as the basra type you simply dont know they are there. and whats more if our boys did it you wouldnt even know they did |
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| Migster | Oct 14 2010, 07:44 AM Post #13 |
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Bob Latchford
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Yep, looks like someone's used a fragmentation grenage... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/1...do-disciplinary |
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| proccy_blues | Oct 14 2010, 03:18 PM Post #14 |
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Joe Bradford
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their special forces are at least as good as ours, they're all top-notch professionals conducting last ditch attempts when everything is or has failed. in that sense it's extremely high risk, and to lose one or two is inevitable. they have saved dozens if not hundreds over the years, and long may they carry on |
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| baron von bluenose | Oct 14 2010, 04:12 PM Post #15 |
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Bob Latchford
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our special forces train there special forces end of |
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| proccy_blues | Oct 14 2010, 05:08 PM Post #16 |
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Joe Bradford
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not true anymore |
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| ringo182 | Oct 14 2010, 05:30 PM Post #17 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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but it wasn't last ditch. they made no attempt at all to negotiate a release. they just ran in with all guns blazing throwing around fragmentation grenades. they obviously did very little planning otherwise they wouldn't have thrown a grenade into the area where the woman was being held. i accept it is a very hard job, but there are correct and sinsible ways to do it and then there is doing what the americans did. |
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| proccy_blues | Oct 14 2010, 08:49 PM Post #18 |
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Joe Bradford
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and you know this how? direct line to the seals? they made a mistake, they will do so in the future as the sas/sbs have in the past and will do again - it's people reacting in extreme conditions most of us can only imagine, in the dead of night, against people wearing suicide vests. anyway, lets not argue anymore, rip that poor girl AND all the people who die trying to rescue hostages |
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| Kyle-KRO | Oct 14 2010, 09:28 PM Post #19 |
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Ian Handysides
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This. A group of armed men risking their lives to go in and attempt to save a single hostage against an opposing group of armed men, and some have the audacity to show scorn? I'm saddened by the fact that the woman lost her life in the attempt, but I'd never lambast those who risked their own lives trying to save hers. And lets ask Captain Richard Harris and countless others saved by direct intervention from us special forces how they feel about the yank set-up. |
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| keepthecityblue | Oct 14 2010, 09:52 PM Post #20 |
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Frank Worthington
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Well said. As I said before - negotiation is NOT always a possibility. Words dont solve everything. There are people who take hostages with the sole intention of executing them (like the horrific case of Ken Bigley). It is all a terrible shame for these people - although it should be remembered, that whether aid workers or not, they are seen as fair hostages for insurgents in the middle-east - and many are aware of the dangers they face. Those American forces would have risked their lives to try and save the captors, and whilst a shame that she was killed - surely their brave attempt should be recognised? |
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| bluesviews | Oct 14 2010, 10:07 PM Post #21 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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American military history: Hiroshima Nagasaki Dresden failed Korean War - retreat from Chinese followed by stalement and divison of Korea Vietnam: enough said Iraq - fail Afghanistan - fail Lots of Dumb and Dumbers with state of the art weapons of mass destruction. The only 'special forces' I would like less than the yanks to rescue me are the Russians. Everyone gets killed there. |
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| ringo182 | Oct 15 2010, 02:17 PM Post #22 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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no, negotiations aren't always possible but that no excuse for not trying. i know it's a hard and dangerous job and i've got great respect for those doing it. but that doesn't mean they can simply run in throwing grenades around. what did they expect to happen? they had no idea where the woman actually was and so had no idea what effect the grenades would have. they should have waited to get more info at least on the layout of the building and where the woman was being held. just because a job is dangerous doesn't give you the right to be reckless. |
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