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Don't Call Yourselves Blues Fans...; you're a disgrace!
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Topic Started: Oct 27 2010, 08:15 AM (3,580 Views)
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 11:19 AM
Post #101
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- B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
- Oct 28 2010, 12:17 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:52 AM
- B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
- Oct 28 2010, 11:35 AM
Your viewpoint is fine just quit telling me i can sod off because i hold a different one
Except I haven't. Unless, of course, you think its acceptable for football fans to want to and actively participate in battering the hell of one another, and then you can sod off, because that is the behaviour of the neaderthal, the socially maladjusted, and intellectually stunted. I don't care if these people are doctors, lawyers, binmen or criminals. I don't care if they are wonderful parents, charity workers or saints in every other part of their lives, if they want to bring violence into football I don't want them anywhere near my club. You can call me liberal, you can call me hippy, you can call me soft and you can call me a doo-gooder, I don't give a stuff. I'm a civilised human being who thinks that violence and sport shouldn't ever mix. Ever. And if you have an issue with my opinion, tough. I'm in the right here, and anyone who thinks differently is in the wrong. I'll quite happily stand up here on the moral high ground spouting my opinion until this abhorant opinion that "having a punch up is all part of the game" is eradicated. In this matter, I have the backing of the club themselves, the people who run the game, the people who police the game, the government (all governments) and the vast majority of decent people who go to football up and down the country who've had enough.
i dont have an issue with your opinion ..and i wont call you anything i dont even know you
That's last post wasn't neccesarily directed at you B25 (even though I quoted you) it more of a general point to those who look to condone or even dismiss this sort of behaviour.
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West Heath Blue
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Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
Post #102
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Unregistered
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- B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
- Oct 28 2010, 12:07 PM
- Bumble
- Oct 28 2010, 10:51 AM
- B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
- Oct 28 2010, 10:47 AM
- Bumble
- Oct 28 2010, 10:43 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 10:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
In football violence it's a code , you only fight those that want it, you don't attack the fan and I've been to many a game and seen it kick off to know that is what does happen.
I know quite a few of the old lot and I knowfor a fact their no cowards, I would rather be with these people than all these wishy washy liberals that have read papers and seen Danny dyers football factories and think there all cowards.
Makes them men :LMAO: the hardest and best young lads I know are down Small Heath boxing club, clubs like this make REAL MEN who have respect for other people not these pathetic kids standing behind bigger kids who think they are hard but are just cowards, nah.. real men don't go around in gangs beating the **** out of other supporters. Crowd trouble to day is not 5% of what it was in the 70s and 80s and to try and glory these pathetic pieces of **** is a joke.
Ah now Boxing there is a noble sport.where 2 men try to knock 7 bells out of each other...it even has role models like ermm Mike Tyson oh and just to let you know Bumble many of the lads that i know are Boxers some have even fought for national and world titles whilst being part of the "gang" following BCFC
So 6 thugs jumping on another supporter AND BEATING THE *** out of him is the same as 2 men boxing with rules and a ref in a boxing ring....ermmmm OK. And one of the lds I know swam the channel underwater without surfacing. which is also bull****
believe what you want its ok by me...i dont need to mention names just as some former players at the club have been involved but again im just making that up as well Boxing is deemed as a wholly respectable sport but adds up to no more than 2 opponents having a fight...in a controlled situation.Kickboxing again is licensed but adds up to nothing more than the same but more street like. Im sure you will justify Boxing quite easily...im not trying to justify why lads get involved in football related disorder i just have an understanding
B25 you're probably wasting your time bud. **thumbup
I don't think Bumble is really able to read a post without twisting it to suit his argument.
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The_Bear
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Oct 28 2010, 11:38 AM
Post #103
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Firstly let me make this plain, I have not been involved in or condone violence at football matches.
Violence at sporting events have been going on since competitive sport has been around and even today its not isolated to football.
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Popular factions of the munera (and ludi) are described throughout the Imperial era.[150] Under Augustan legislation, the Samnite type was renamed secutor (equipped with an oblong or "large" shield), whose supporters were secutarii.[151] As the games evolved, any lightly armed, defensive fighter could be included in this group. The heavily armoured and armed Thracian types (Thraex) and Murmillo, who fought with smaller shields, were parmularii (small shield), as were their supporters. Trajan preferred the parmularii and Domitian the secutarii; Marcus Aurelius took neither side. Nero seems to have enjoyed the brawls between rowdy, enthusiastic and sometimes violent factions, but called in the troops if they went too far.[152][153] Once a band of five retiarii in tunics, matched against the same number of secutores, yielded without a struggle; but when their death was ordered, one of them caught up his trident and slew all the victors. Caligula bewailed this in a public proclamation as a most cruel murder.[154] There were also local rivalries. At Pompeii's amphitheatre, trading of insults between Pompeians and Nucerian spectators during public ludi led to stone throwing and riot. Many were killed or wounded. Nero banned gladiator munera (though not the games) at Pompeii for ten years as punishment. The story is told in graffiti and high quality wall painting, with much boasting of Pompeii's "victory" over Nuceria.[155]
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Violence by supporters of sports teams dates back to Roman times, when supporters of chariot racing teams were frequently involved in major riots. A notable example of this is the Nika riots of 532.
The actions of English football hooligans and firms in the 1980s caused English teams to be banned from European competition for six years after the Heysel Stadium disaster in 1985. Although the level of football-related violence was significantly reduced in England after this event, in the recent Euro 2004 tournament, England were publicly warned that any violence by supporters at matches could result in their ejection from the tournament. Many known hooligans were prevented from traveling to the tournament in Portugal. There was a collective sigh of relief from security experts in the USA when England failed to qualify for the 1994 FIFA World Cup. Alan Rothenberg (chairman of the World Cup organizing committee in the United States in 1994) said: “ There were three countries in the world whose presence would have created logistical and security problems, so we're very pleased they won't be coming: Iraq, Iran and England. ”
* In 532, the rivalry between supporters of the Blue and Green chariot-racing teams in Constantinople, led to 30,000 deaths in the Nika riots. * The first meeting in the American football rivalry between Brigham Young University and the University of Utah took place in April 1896, when BYU was known as Brigham Young Academy. The two schools disagree to this day as to whether this game was official, but it mattered greatly to the spectators—at the end of the game, the two sets of fans fought one another.
* In 1975, cyclist Eddy Merckx was viciously punched by a spectator as he climbed the Puy de Dôme in the Tour de France. Merckx, who had won the Tour de France five times previously and at the time was in the leader's yellow jersey, finished the stage barely able to breathe, and went on to finish the tour in second place overall. * The 1980 Scottish Cup Final between bitter Old Firm rivals Celtic and Rangers was marred by an on-pitch riot between rival fans.[1] The result was the banning of alcohol from Scottish football matches. * After Marvin Hagler knocked out Alan Minter in three rounds to win boxing's world middleweight title at Wembley Arena in 1980, many of Minter's supporters began to throw beer cans, bottles and other objects into the ring. Both Hagler and Minter, along with their respective handlers, had to be escorted out by Scotland Yard. * On August 12, 1984, during a game between the Atlanta Braves and San Diego Padres that degenerated into a beanball war:[2] o At least five fans were dragged from the field at Atlanta–Fulton County Stadium in handcuffs after participating in a bench-clearing brawl. o One of the fans was charged with assault for throwing a full beer mug at the Padres' Kurt Bevacqua, hitting him in the head, as he was returning to the dugout. o The game ended with police riot squads on top of both dugouts in an obvious attempt to keep fans away from the players. * At the end of the same season, violence erupted outside of Tiger Stadium in Detroit after the Detroit Tigers defeated the Padres in the World Series. A well known photo from the riot shows a Tigers fan holding a World Series pennant in front of an overturned burning Detroit Police car. * Heysel Stadium disaster – 39 people died when a wall collapsed under pressure of Juventus supporters fleeing from 'football hooligans' supporting Liverpool during the 1985 European Cup Final. * In 1990, a football match between Red Star Belgrade and Dinamo Zagreb was abandoned after ten minutes with thousands of fans fighting each other and the police. One of the Zagreb players was seen to kick a policeman, and after an hour long riot, the stadium was set on fire. * In 1993, Monica Seles was stabbed by a Steffi Graf fan during a changeover at a tennis match in Germany. * In 1994, Vancouver Canucks fans rioted in the streets of Vancouver after their team lost in the Stanley Cup finals. * During the 1994 FIFA World Cup, Colombian football (soccer) player Andrés Escobar accidentally scored an own goal in a match against the United States, a match which Colombia lost 2-1. On his return to Colombia, Escobar was confronted outside a bar in Medellín by a gunman who shot the player six times, killing him. The gunman reportedly shouted "¡Gol!" ("Goal!") for each bullet fired. * Rioting Indian fans at the Eden Gardens stadium in Calcutta forced the end of the semi-final match between India and Sri Lanka during the 1996 Cricket World Cup. Fans started rioting when the home team, seemingly on the way to victory, underwent a dramatic batting collapse. Match referee Clive Lloyd brought the teams off the ground for their safety, then attempted to restart the match. When the fans remained throwing projectiles and damaging stadium facilities, the match was called off and awarded to Sri Lanka (who went on to win the World Cup). * In 1998, Denver Broncos fans rioted in the streets of Denver after their team won Super Bowl XXXII. Near-riots happened when the team won the Super Bowl again the following year and after the Colorado Avalanche's Stanley Cup wins in 1996 and 2001. * A similar incident occurred in Oakland, California in 2003 when fans rioted and destroyed property after the Oakland Raiders lost to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in Super Bowl XXXVII. * In July 2000, 13 people were trampled to death in a riot at a 2002 FIFA World Cup qualifying match in Harare, Zimbabwe, after South Africa took a 2-0 lead over Zimbabwe. * In June 2000, Los Angeles Lakers fans stormed the streets of Los Angeles after the Lakers victory over the Indiana Pacers in the 2000 NBA Finals. Fans briefly celebrated by starting bonfires, but it soon turned into a riot, with fans dancing and stomping on parked cars, and even turning a news van over.[3] * In October 2004, fans of the Boston Red Sox rioted just outside of Fenway Park after the Red Sox won the American League Championship Series over the New York Yankees. Police used "pepper guns" in some cases and an Emerson College student, Victoria Snelgrove, was killed by a pepper filled paintball-like projectile which hit her in the eye. * On November 19, 2004, near the end of an NBA game between the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons, a brawl erupted between Pacers players and Pistons supporters. * On April 12, 2005, the UEFA Champions League quarterfinal between intracity rivals AC Milan and Inter Milan was abandoned after Inter fans threw missiles and flares on to the pitch at the San Siro stadium, with AC Milan goalkeeper Dida hit by a flare.
It seems to me from the above that violence at sporting occasions is as a result of the fans being fired up or over fired up.
Taking away the passion from the sport would probably remove the violence but do we want to remove the passion? Would it become meaningless?
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BARNETTSrun
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Oct 28 2010, 11:42 AM
Post #104
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Some things are worth fighting over
Liberty
Family
Football is not
And i passionately love THE BLUES so i do not think passion needs to be taken away from the game - i can go and watch a game and passionately want BLUES to win but afterward i could go and have a pint with a like minded supporter of the other team, no problem
I take my son along now and i think i am streetwise enough to keep him from any incidents , but it is not right
Never has been and never will be - Always said let them have an area where they go go and kill each other if they wish , how many do u think would turn up ?
But let the people who dont want to be caught up in anything go and enjoy a game of football
:Blues:
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dr.nick
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Oct 28 2010, 12:04 PM
Post #105
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- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
Once more, utter flipping bilge. Of the highest order. Outside of the playground, I've not once been involved in a fight of any sort. By that measure I'm not a man?
Let's put it this way do you know how todefend yourself?
Do you run or stand your ground?
You don't have to go around causing trouble to be a man but you must be able to defend yourself and family to be a man IMO.
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dr.nick
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Oct 28 2010, 12:07 PM
Post #106
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- Bumble
- Oct 28 2010, 10:43 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 10:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
In football violence it's a code , you only fight those that want it, you don't attack the fan and I've been to many a game and seen it kick off to know that is what does happen.
I know quite a few of the old lot and I knowfor a fact their no cowards, I would rather be with these people than all these wishy washy liberals that have read papers and seen Danny dyers football factories and think there all cowards.
Makes them men :LMAO: the hardest and best young lads I know are down Small Heath boxing club, clubs like this make REAL MEN who have respect for other people not these pathetic kids standing behind bigger kids who think they are hard but are just cowards, nah.. real men don't go around in gangs beating the **** out of other supporters. Crowd trouble to day is not 5% of what it was in the 70s and 80s and to try and glory these pathetic pieces of **** is a joke.
I agree boxing does make real men , but it is still violence so it still aplys no mater if it's in a ring or on the street.
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
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Oct 28 2010, 12:22 PM
Post #107
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- BARNETTSrun
- Oct 28 2010, 11:42 AM
Some things are worth fighting over
Liberty
Family
Football is not
And i passionately love THE BLUES so i do not think passion needs to be taken away from the game - i can go and watch a game and passionately want BLUES to win but afterward i could go and have a pint with a like minded supporter of the other team, no problem
I take my son along now and i think i am streetwise enough to keep him from any incidents , but it is not right
Never has been and never will be - Always said let them have an area where they go go and kill each other if they wish , how many do u think would turn up ?
But let the people who dont want to be caught up in anything go and enjoy a game of football
:Blues:
Barnetts excellent post and the sensible way to express an opinion **thumbup
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 12:25 PM
Post #108
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- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:04 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
Once more, utter flipping bilge. Of the highest order. Outside of the playground, I've not once been involved in a fight of any sort. By that measure I'm not a man?
Let's put it this way do you know how todefend yourself? Do you run or stand your ground? You don't have to go around causing trouble to be a man but you must be able to defend yourself and family to be a man IMO.
Well, that's a totally different question to the discussion at hand.
To answer, no, I don't know how to defend myself, but I do know enough to keep out of any situation that may result in me needing to. I've lasted 38 years doing it so far.
I also prefer to concentrate my efforts on providing for my family rather than learning how to defend them. There is little that could be taught that beats a cricket bat and an angry demeanor anyway.
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dr.nick
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Oct 28 2010, 12:38 PM
Post #109
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- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 12:25 PM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:04 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
Once more, utter flipping bilge. Of the highest order. Outside of the playground, I've not once been involved in a fight of any sort. By that measure I'm not a man?
Let's put it this way do you know how todefend yourself? Do you run or stand your ground? You don't have to go around causing trouble to be a man but you must be able to defend yourself and family to be a man IMO.
Well, that's a totally different question to the discussion at hand. To answer, no, I don't know how to defend myself, but I do know enough to keep out of any situation that may result in me needing to. I've lasted 38 years doing it so far. I also prefer to concentrate my efforts on providing for my family rather than learning how to defend them. There is little that could be taught that beats a cricket bat and an angry demeanor anyway.
Everybody will try to avoid trouble if you know it can happen, thing is what about it happening off the cuff?
I would rather be able to defend myself and bring my lad up to defend hisself than be in a position of helplessness,
You don't have to be a bully or go around causing fights to do this.
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bluenosekev
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Oct 28 2010, 12:47 PM
Post #110
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- West Heath Blue
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I don't think Bumble is really able to read a post without twisting it to suit his argument.
It is half term this week in case you havent noticed, Hence the likes of Bumble who have nothing better to do..
Kro.
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 12:50 PM
Post #111
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- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:38 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 12:25 PM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:04 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
Once more, utter flipping bilge. Of the highest order. Outside of the playground, I've not once been involved in a fight of any sort. By that measure I'm not a man?
Let's put it this way do you know how todefend yourself? Do you run or stand your ground? You don't have to go around causing trouble to be a man but you must be able to defend yourself and family to be a man IMO.
Well, that's a totally different question to the discussion at hand. To answer, no, I don't know how to defend myself, but I do know enough to keep out of any situation that may result in me needing to. I've lasted 38 years doing it so far. I also prefer to concentrate my efforts on providing for my family rather than learning how to defend them. There is little that could be taught that beats a cricket bat and an angry demeanor anyway.
Everybody will try to avoid trouble if you know it can happen, thing is what about it happening off the cuff? I would rather be able to defend myself and bring my lad up to defend hisself than be in a position of helplessness, You don't have to be a bully or go around causing fights to do this.
(still isn't what the debate is about, but hey ho)
Personally, my advice is always to run like hell. Learning how to defend yourself means nothing if there is more than two of them, and these people usually travel in packs.
I have no problem with people learning self defence or a martial art, if nothing else, the emphasis there is on avoidance, control and discipline of the mind.
But the best thing to do is not to put yourself in a situation, and get the hell away as quickly as possible should it all kick off.
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The_Bear
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Oct 28 2010, 12:54 PM
Post #112
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- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 12:50 PM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:38 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 12:25 PM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:04 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
Once more, utter flipping bilge. Of the highest order. Outside of the playground, I've not once been involved in a fight of any sort. By that measure I'm not a man?
Let's put it this way do you know how todefend yourself? Do you run or stand your ground? You don't have to go around causing trouble to be a man but you must be able to defend yourself and family to be a man IMO.
Well, that's a totally different question to the discussion at hand. To answer, no, I don't know how to defend myself, but I do know enough to keep out of any situation that may result in me needing to. I've lasted 38 years doing it so far. I also prefer to concentrate my efforts on providing for my family rather than learning how to defend them. There is little that could be taught that beats a cricket bat and an angry demeanor anyway.
Everybody will try to avoid trouble if you know it can happen, thing is what about it happening off the cuff? I would rather be able to defend myself and bring my lad up to defend hisself than be in a position of helplessness, You don't have to be a bully or go around causing fights to do this.
(still isn't what the debate is about, but hey ho) Personally, my advice is always to run like hell. Learning how to defend yourself means nothing if there is more than two of them, and these people usually travel in packs. I have no problem with people learning self defence or a martial art, if nothing else, the emphasis there is on avoidance, control and discipline of the mind. But the best thing to do is not to put yourself in a situation, and get the hell away as quickly as possible should it all kick off.
Funnily enough when i did karate my sensi used to say "First rule if attacked, run away if you can and only if you can't then you defend yourself"
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dr.nick
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Oct 28 2010, 12:56 PM
Post #113
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- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 12:50 PM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:38 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 12:25 PM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:04 PM
- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 10:32 AM
- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I think it's quite natural for young lads to fight, it makes them men.
Once more, utter flipping bilge. Of the highest order. Outside of the playground, I've not once been involved in a fight of any sort. By that measure I'm not a man?
Let's put it this way do you know how todefend yourself? Do you run or stand your ground? You don't have to go around causing trouble to be a man but you must be able to defend yourself and family to be a man IMO.
Well, that's a totally different question to the discussion at hand. To answer, no, I don't know how to defend myself, but I do know enough to keep out of any situation that may result in me needing to. I've lasted 38 years doing it so far. I also prefer to concentrate my efforts on providing for my family rather than learning how to defend them. There is little that could be taught that beats a cricket bat and an angry demeanor anyway.
Everybody will try to avoid trouble if you know it can happen, thing is what about it happening off the cuff? I would rather be able to defend myself and bring my lad up to defend hisself than be in a position of helplessness, You don't have to be a bully or go around causing fights to do this.
(still isn't what the debate is about, but hey ho) Personally, my advice is always to run like hell. Learning how to defend yourself means nothing if there is more than two of them, and these people usually travel in packs. I have no problem with people learning self defence or a martial art, if nothing else, the emphasis there is on avoidance, control and discipline of the mind. But the best thing to do is not to put yourself in a situation, and get the hell away as quickly as possible should it all kick off.
I have never seen or heard of a group attacking a rival supporter for no reason, the only thing I have heard about is a supporter that part of another firm so he was up for it and it's a price you pay for doing that sort of thing.
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West Heath Blue
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Oct 28 2010, 12:57 PM
Post #114
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Unregistered
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- bluenosekev
- Oct 28 2010, 01:47 PM
- West Heath Blue
- Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I don't think Bumble is really able to read a post without twisting it to suit his argument.
It is half term this week in case you havent noticed, Hence the likes of Bumble who have nothing better to do.. Kro.
:LMAO:
Oh yeah i hadn't thought!
Busy little Bumble Bee isnt he **thumbup
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 12:58 PM
Post #115
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- dr.nick
- Oct 28 2010, 01:56 PM
I have never seen or heard of a group attacking a rival supporter for no reason, the only thing I have heard about is a supporter that part of another firm so he was up for it and it's a price you pay for doing that sort of thing.
Quite.
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Holmsie
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Oct 28 2010, 01:01 PM
Post #116
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Did anyone see that BBC programme on football hooliganism on Monday (could have been last monday) about half 7??
Gave a very good insight from the Police's point of view on how they deal with them. Some of it was good, some of it I just thought "you absolute wally copper, use abit of common sense and let them get on with it".
They showed the Blues fans leaving Hawthorns after the defeat, obviously emotions are going to be raw.
The most shocking clip was when the reporter's camera was being surrounded by angry Blues fans who thought they were undercover Police (a few blokes were trying to stick up for this lad who was gettin arrested).
What was abit stupid I thought, either from the shows Directors or the Police choice, was interviewing one head lad from a Wolves firm. Gave his name and history. They would say they are highlighting who he is and shaming him.
I would say himself and his mates will love the fact he got on the tele and would just enhance his ego...
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blue casual
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Oct 28 2010, 01:03 PM
Post #117
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It's very easy to take a holier-than-thou stance and condem sections of our support when you've never seen the other side of the coin. It's impossible to take a reasoned approach to the pros and cons of their existence if you've never been found wanting.
I wonder how you would fair if ever you did find yourself cornered, without anyone around to assist you. It can happen when you least expect it, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. I've been there and I can tell you now, you don't pick and choose between your own support. I have a lot more respect for people that stand up for others, to those that walk away with their tales between their legs.
Passion runs rife throughout football, and quite rightly so but no matter what you proclaim, it will remain in man's nature to fight.
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 01:09 PM
Post #118
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- blue casual
- Oct 28 2010, 02:03 PM
It's very easy to take a holier-than-thou stance and condem sections of our support when you've never seen the other side of the coin. It's impossible to take a reasoned approach to the pros and cons of their existence if you've never been found wanting.
I wonder how you would fair if ever you did find yourself cornered, without anyone around to assist you. It can happen when you least expect it, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. I've been there and I can tell you now, you don't pick and choose between your own support. I have a lot more respect for people that stand up for others, to those that walk away with their tales between their legs.
Passion runs rife throughout football, and quite rightly so but no matter what you proclaim, it will remain in man's nature to fight.
All utterly immaterial if violence was taken out of support in the first place.
Hundreds of thousands of people are able to go and see football matches every weekend without feeling the need to resort to violence, so yes, its very simple to take a reasoned approach to this.
It shouldn't happen, and we, as supporters, shouldn't look to legitimise those who take part in it.
And whilst it may be part of man's nature to fight, do so over something as utterly meaningless as football (in the scheme of things) is ludicrous in the extreme.
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The_Bear
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Oct 28 2010, 01:11 PM
Post #119
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- thehod
- Oct 28 2010, 01:09 PM
- blue casual
- Oct 28 2010, 02:03 PM
It's very easy to take a holier-than-thou stance and condem sections of our support when you've never seen the other side of the coin. It's impossible to take a reasoned approach to the pros and cons of their existence if you've never been found wanting.
I wonder how you would fair if ever you did find yourself cornered, without anyone around to assist you. It can happen when you least expect it, no matter how hard you try to avoid it. I've been there and I can tell you now, you don't pick and choose between your own support. I have a lot more respect for people that stand up for others, to those that walk away with their tales between their legs.
Passion runs rife throughout football, and quite rightly so but no matter what you proclaim, it will remain in man's nature to fight.
All utterly immaterial if violence was taken out of support in the first place. Hundreds of thousands of people are able to go and see football matches every weekend without feeling the need to resort to violence, so yes, its very simple to take a reasoned approach to this. It shouldn't happen, and we, as supporters, shouldn't look to legitimise those who take part in it. And whilst it may be part of man's nature to fight, do so over something as utterly meaningless as football (in the scheme of things) is ludicrous in the extreme.
No they don't though do they They get angry on the terraces, scream abuse at the tea, ref, other fans, Verbal abuse is the same thing isnt it?
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wardendblue
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Oct 28 2010, 01:21 PM
Post #120
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what would some of the blues fans on here do if on sunday thay seen a few vile fans kicking the !"£$ out of some blues fans? just a question .....i mean say 5 on 2 ,,,,,,,,,walk past and let them get a hammering?????????? answers please ,,,,,,me id help them as a fellow blues fan .......what would the blues fans on here do?
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 01:23 PM
Post #121
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- The_Bear
- Oct 28 2010, 02:11 PM
No they don't though do they They get angry on the terraces, scream abuse at the tea, ref, other fans, Verbal abuse is the same thing isnt it?
Which is all part of the banter inside the ground, and should be left at the gate.
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thehod
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Oct 28 2010, 01:25 PM
Post #122
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- wardendblue
- Oct 28 2010, 02:21 PM
what would some of the blues fans on here do if on sunday thay seen a few vile fans kicking the !"£$ out of some blues fans? just a question .....i mean say 5 on 2 ,,,,,,,,,walk past and let them get a hammering?????????? answers please ,,,,,,me id help them as a fellow blues fan .......what would the blues fans on here do?
Which, if you'd read the entire thread, is not what we're discussing.
Its not what we would do in such a situation, but the fact that the situation shouldn't exist in football in the first place, and everything should be done to remove it and the people who like to get involved in it.
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
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Oct 28 2010, 01:26 PM
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shouldn't happen, and we, as supporters, shouldn't look to legitimise those who take part in it.
Hod in all reasonable circumstances it shouldnt happen...but it has and it does.Not to labour the point but Drink Driving shouldnt happen,speeding drivers shouldnt happen but it does...lots of other things shouldnt happen but they do...
It is the nature of the beast
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dr.nick
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Oct 28 2010, 01:27 PM
Post #124
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- wardendblue
- Oct 28 2010, 01:21 PM
what would some of the blues fans on here do if on sunday thay seen a few vile fans kicking the !"£$ out of some blues fans? just a question .....i mean say 5 on 2 ,,,,,,,,,walk past and let them get a hammering?????????? answers please ,,,,,,me id help them as a fellow blues fan .......what would the blues fans on here do?
I'd definatly help, I couldn't walk past and see our supporters get done I'd feel like a coward and I wouldn't be able to look my kids in the eye.
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alfred E nueman
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Oct 28 2010, 01:27 PM
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- thehod
- Oct 27 2010, 11:40 PM
There is a world of difference between a few choice words being exchanged between fans and the intimidating presence that can be caused by a group of people with hoods up, scarves around their faces, goading the opposition into retailiation, usually across a crowd of people who are doing little more than trying to get home............ ............ .........Life on Mars did a brilliant story about the football violence that was endemic in the 70s, and there's a quote from the end of the episode that sums up exactly how I feel about football violence... Sam Tyler: You know nothing about football! I used to go to football with my dad. United and City fans used to walk to the match together. Our next door neighbour, he had a City flag up in his window. Kids used to play together in the street - red and blue. But then people like you came along and you took it away from us. Peter Bond: A good punch up's all part of the game! It's about pride. Pride in your team. Being the best! Sam Tyler: No it isn't! This is how it starts and then it escalates. It gets on the telly and in the press, and then other fans from other clubs start trying to out do each other. And then it becomes about hate! And then it's nothing to do with football any more! It's about gangs and scumbags like you roaming the country seeing who can cause the most trouble. And then we overreact, and we have to put up perimeter fences and we treat the fans like animals! Forty, fifty thousand people herded into pens! And then how long before something happens, eh? How long before something terrible happens and we are dragging bodies out?There is a direct line you can draw from the actions of the hooligan element during the 70s and 80s, through the legislation to prevent, to the attitude in the police and the government to football fans, right up to Hillsborough. Now thankfully, we are nowhere near that level, and we are nowhere near as bad as it is on the continent, but I don't want to see us heading in that direction again, and anything that we can do to stop it happening again is a good thing.
:applause: :applause:
Anyone remember when Mr Bates (when he ran Chelsea) wanted electric fences to pen in the visiting fans. Applauded by a certain Mrs T at the time, who was also trying to get identity cards made law for any football fan.
That will give an example to the younger fans on here of exactly how bad it was.
Stats have also shown that the majority of "England" fans, arrested for violence or drunkeness abroad, invariably come from semi-rural areas, follow clubs like Bath or Walthamstow Athletic and by joining the England fan base they can get involved in the 'group' display and activity that they don't normally have.
It is rare for the Chelsea/Liverpool/Man Utd fan to be arrested abroad folowing England, although it does happen but on a very minor scale.
I know we are talking now about football violence and basic neanderthal actions - springing more from a need to belong (to a certain peer group) - than from any rights of passage into adulthood. But what exactly happened on Tuesday night ?
So many police it says, but no arrests ?
Was there any trouble other than running around as part of a group ?
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