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Don't Call Yourselves Blues Fans...; you're a disgrace!
Topic Started: Oct 27 2010, 08:15 AM (3,579 Views)
dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 01:26 PM
shouldn't happen, and we, as supporters, shouldn't look to legitimise those who take part in it.

Hod in all reasonable circumstances it shouldnt happen...but it has and it does.Not to labour the point but Drink Driving shouldnt happen,speeding drivers shouldnt happen but it does...lots of other things shouldnt happen but they do...

It is the nature of the beast

That's the truth of the mater.
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turunc
Frank Worthington
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Opinions are clearly divided on this.

I think the thing that should most worry football in general is parents who previously have gone down to St Andrews becoming family men and not feeling safe taking their young children as their Fathers did them.

This is not a Blues problem it is football in general and is part of the reason why gates are falling away, I believe. You can't fill a stadium with fifty five year olds whose kids have grown up or indeed twenty odd year olds still single without responsibility and cash to spend.

Went to the States and sat in Mets stadium, no hassle, no violence, fully enjoyable day and experience. Used to watch Speedway, stood side by side with opposing fans having a wind up and laugh, never saw any hassle.

Violence is a problem within football and has been for years, however due to costs and most families financial constraints Fathers are not returning to watch games with their kids.

Without the next generation of fans coming through, gates will continue to reduce.
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bluenosekev
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Gil Merrick
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dr.nick
Oct 28 2010, 01:27 PM
wardendblue
Oct 28 2010, 01:21 PM
what would some of the blues fans on here do if on sunday thay seen a few vile fans kicking the !"£$ out of some blues fans? just a question .....i mean say 5 on 2 ,,,,,,,,,walk past and let them get a hammering??????????  answers please ,,,,,,me id help them as a fellow blues fan .......what would the blues fans on here do?

I'd definatly help, I couldn't walk past and see our supporters get done I'd feel like a coward and I wouldn't be able to look my kids in the eye.

Its definitely not definatly ;)

But you are right mate most would go and help, only to have the old bill turn up and nick you ;)

kro.
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BARNETTSrun
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Malcom Page
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For me this has nothing to do with being able to defend yourself or running

Its about people who are slowly working their way back into the game who think its ok to cause problems at football , it nearly killed the game years ago and i pray it does not return at any great level

I was involved when i was younger and got into all sorts of trouble thought i was a right hard case - I WASNT

Nearly getting killed one day in Liverpool gave me the shock i needed and i have never gone back

I learnt to box properly (something my son is learning now ) and realised i did not have a clue how to fight and most of the people i got involved with didnt either

Some did , but most were arms outstretched gesticulating hooligans

Having my son has taught me that football is such a wonderful game and seeing him excited watching blues singing his heart out on his own most of the time !! fills me with a pride i cannot describe

I am bringing him up to love the blues and want them to win at all costs but hopefully that when the game finishes we can go home home and play on the wii NOW or in years to come go and have a pint , talk about it , moan about it but not feel the need to get into a fight with someone about it !!

I would hate to think that he could end up in a situation where he would feel threatened, and all that was taken away from him and me

I know i must have been that idiot who scared to death small kids many years ago and i think about it now , Not with pride but with shame

Ps the ashes to ashes quote sums it up for me
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thehod
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:26 PM
Hod in all reasonable circumstances it shouldnt happen...but it has and it does.Not to labour the point but Drink Driving shouldnt happen,speeding drivers shouldnt happen but it does...lots of other things shouldnt happen but they do...

It is the nature of the beast

Well, yes I'm fully aware of that.

Should we just accept it then?
Should we just shrug our shoulders and let it continue, citing the fact its always been around and probably always will be?
Should we continue to allow the situation to propogate soley because we can't be bothered to do anything about it, and it was so much worse back in the 70s and its so much worse in other countries?

Or shall we continue to say that we, as a club and its supporters, are not going to accept this element being part of our club and our sport.
Shall we continue to insist that anyone involved in this sort of activity is removed from the club on a permenant basis and turned into a footballing pariah.
Shall we stop glorifying the actions of a bunch of current 50 year olds as if they were a source of pride in the history of our club.

I'm for trying to make things better rather than just letting the situation continue, or, god forbid, get worse.

But then, that's just me. I may be many things, but apathetic isn't one of them.
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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This is a genuine question, did the hoolies really nearly kill the game? What were the crowds like at the blues back then? I dont mean when we went to the lower reaches of the leagues. I seem to remember during the late 70s we had a huge crowd and I remember mates of mine having draws in their bedrooms with other teams scarfs that they had nicked from other hoolies. So when exactly did the hooligan issue start to see crowds dwindle?
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Jolly Jack
Unregistered

thehod
Oct 28 2010, 01:23 PM
The_Bear
Oct 28 2010, 02:11 PM
No they don't though do they  They get angry on the terraces, scream abuse at the tea, ref, other fans, Verbal abuse is the same thing isnt it?

Which is all part of the banter inside the ground, and should be left at the gate.

Banter? No it isn't. Banter is what you got in the old days when fans mixed, it's what you get at non-segregated sports like Rugby (Union and League) or Cricket, screaming abuse towards the other end of the pitch isn't Banter, never was.

As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.


As for Dr Nick, I'm shocked - I had a higher opinion of you than that.
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thehod
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
The_Bear
Oct 28 2010, 02:56 PM
This is a genuine question, did the hoolies really nearly kill the game? What were the crowds like at the blues back then? I dont mean when we went to the lower reaches of the leagues. I seem to remember during the late 70s we had a huge crowd and I remember mates of mine having draws in their bedrooms with other teams scarfs that they had nicked from other hoolies. So when exactly did the hooligan issue start to see crowds dwindle?

It was less to do with crowd numbers Bear, because during that era there was less football shown on telly, so if you wanted to watch football, going to watch it live was really the only place to properly follow your club. Plus the effective cost of entry was much more viable to low incomes, and kick offs were 3.00pm on a Saturday, regular as clockwork.

No, it was more in the social situation in being a football fan. You became a pariah in your own community. Football fan became short hand for hooligan. The government and police all saw you as a criminal element, and the kids as a potential criminal element. ID cards had their genesis in the government attempts to cure the blight of football hooliganism.
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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This graph is interesting, during the hoolie years gates were quite high, not as high as the 20's and 30's but certainly keeping up with the pre hoolie 50's. after the 80s there is a huge turn down in attendance under the Kumars and then its up again under the porno kings.

Posted Image
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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
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The_Bear
Oct 28 2010, 01:56 PM
This is a genuine question, did the hoolies really nearly kill the game? What were the crowds like at the blues back then? I dont mean when we went to the lower reaches of the leagues. I seem to remember during the late 70s we had a huge crowd and I remember mates of mine having draws in their bedrooms with other teams scarfs that they had nicked from other hoolies. So when exactly did the hooligan issue start to see crowds dwindle?

Good point , I'd say that the propaganda of the media used the hooligan issue as an excuse to blame it on dwindling crowds.

The mid eighties saw new powers to attack the problem and that done more damage to the crowds IMO.

Many footy hooligans have said that it didn't pay to fight at the match anymore so stopped going.

The money when sky took over made more people come back because the facilities improved the experience of the match day.

All the new powers and laws did was drive it underground if you like.

Now with more social chaos it's emerging again and becoming more visual if you like.
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thehod
Mikael Forssell
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Jolly Jack
Oct 28 2010, 03:03 PM
thehod
Oct 28 2010, 01:23 PM
The_Bear
Oct 28 2010, 02:11 PM
No they don't though do they  They get angry on the terraces, scream abuse at the tea, ref, other fans, Verbal abuse is the same thing isnt it?

Which is all part of the banter inside the ground, and should be left at the gate.

Banter? No it isn't. Banter is what you got in the old days when fans mixed, it's what you get at non-segregated sports like Rugby (Union and League) or Cricket, screaming abuse towards the other end of the pitch isn't Banter, never was.

Call it the best of a bad choice of words.

I'm not a fan of the screaming abuse during a football match, but I understand why it happens, and as long as its left at the gate, it is by far the lesser of two evils.
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alfred E nueman
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Mikael Forssell
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The_Bear
Oct 28 2010, 02:56 PM
This is a genuine question, did the hoolies really nearly kill the game?  What were the crowds like at the blues back then?  I dont mean when we went to the lower reaches of the leagues.  I seem to remember during the late 70s we had a huge crowd and I remember mates of mine having draws in their bedrooms with other teams scarfs that they had nicked from other hoolies.  So when exactly did the hooligan issue start to see crowds dwindle?

During the middle to late seventies Bear.

Man Utd fans especially were the media's target group. (They used to take over the home supporters areas as a matter of course, because of their numbers).

Crowd segregation began. And the Taylor Report - for all-seaters 10 years later seriously cut crowd numbers everywhere.
At St Andrews by the late seventies we had visiting fans in one half of the Tilton and a huge gap behind the goal then the home fans. They sometimes put a TV camera in that gap, right up the back on scaffolding.

By mid 80s it was only the usual suspects then - that caused trouble - the Millwalls, Leeds and so on. The price hikes that came with the Premier innovation gradually saw the bovver boys replaced by the prawn sarnies to a large extent.Early 90s.

What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.

Unless you are a West Ham Supporter and you are 55, bald and with a beer belly and can run riot, just like old times. :D
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Alex Govan
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thehod
Oct 28 2010, 01:54 PM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:26 PM
Hod in all reasonable circumstances it shouldnt happen...but it has and it does.Not to labour the point but Drink Driving shouldnt happen,speeding drivers shouldnt happen but it does...lots of other things shouldnt happen but they do...

It is the nature of the beast

Well, yes I'm fully aware of that.

Should we just accept it then?
Should we just shrug our shoulders and let it continue, citing the fact its always been around and probably always will be?
Should we continue to allow the situation to propogate soley because we can't be bothered to do anything about it, and it was so much worse back in the 70s and its so much worse in other countries?

Or shall we continue to say that we, as a club and its supporters, are not going to accept this element being part of our club and our sport.
Shall we continue to insist that anyone involved in this sort of activity is removed from the club on a permenant basis and turned into a footballing pariah.
Shall we stop glorifying the actions of a bunch of current 50 year olds as if they were a source of pride in the history of our club.

I'm for trying to make things better rather than just letting the situation continue, or, god forbid, get worse.

But then, that's just me. I may be many things, but apathetic isn't one of them.

Im not apathetic either...im realistic and no you dont just have to accept it.

If you feel so strongly which you clearly do then by all means dedicate your time and efforts into effecting change if you can.The current punishments handed out couldnt be more severe when compared to the crime and how swift justice is served with little or no defence for the accused...so the deterrent is clearly there.

Despite being actively involved many older lads do pass on the fact that being involved in disorder today isnt the cleverest thing to do...to those that will listen anyway
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The_Bear
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Gil Merrick
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alfred E nueman
Oct 28 2010, 02:08 PM
The_Bear
Oct 28 2010, 02:56 PM
This is a genuine question, did the hoolies really nearly kill the game?  What were the crowds like at the blues back then?  I dont mean when we went to the lower reaches of the leagues.  I seem to remember during the late 70s we had a huge crowd and I remember mates of mine having draws in their bedrooms with other teams scarfs that they had nicked from other hoolies.  So when exactly did the hooligan issue start to see crowds dwindle?

During the middle to late seventies Bear.

Man Utd fans especially were the media's target group. (They used to take over the home supporters areas as a matter of course, because of their numbers).

Crowd segregation began. And the Taylor Report - for all-seaters 10 years later seriously cut crowd numbers everywhere.
At St Andrews by the late seventies we had visiting fans in one half of the Tilton and a huge gap behind the goal then the home fans. They sometimes put a TV camera in that gap, right up the back on scaffolding.

By mid 80s it was only the usual suspects then - that caused trouble - the Millwalls, Leeds and so on. The price hikes that came with the Premier innovation gradually saw the bovver boys replaced by the prawn sarnies to a large extent.Early 90s.

What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.

Unless you are a West Ham Supporter and you are 55, bald and with a beer belly and can run riot, just like old times. :D

Not at St andrews, they would never get through the turnstiles :whistle:
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.

what if they are one in the same Jolly Jack
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Jolly Jack
Unregistered

B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:12 PM
As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.

what if they are one in the same Jolly Jack

Meaning?

I hope you're not suggesting that servicemen are involved in any of the stupidness.

Quote:
 
What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.


You hit the nail on the head. 15 year old cretins brought up on bad paperback memoirs, bad films and 'glory days' drivel from fat blokes who were never there. "It got a bit cheeky; loads of claret" - GFY.
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Jolly Jack
Oct 28 2010, 02:28 PM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:12 PM
As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.

what if they are one in the same Jolly Jack

Meaning?

I hope you're not suggesting that servicemen are involved in any of the stupidness.

Quote:
 
What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.


You hit the nail on the head. 15 year old cretins brought up on bad paperback memoirs, bad films and 'glory days' drivel from fat blokes who were never there. "It got a bit cheeky; loads of claret" - GFY.

very much so Jolly Jack

just like Bumble fails to believe that a Boxer could be involved
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BARNETTSrun
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Malcom Page
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:30 PM
Jolly Jack
Oct 28 2010, 02:28 PM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:12 PM
As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.

what if they are one in the same Jolly Jack

Meaning?

I hope you're not suggesting that servicemen are involved in any of the stupidness.

Quote:
 
What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.


You hit the nail on the head. 15 year old cretins brought up on bad paperback memoirs, bad films and 'glory days' drivel from fat blokes who were never there. "It got a bit cheeky; loads of claret" - GFY.

very much so Jolly Jack

just like Bumble fails to believe that a Boxer could be involved

I know a very well known boxer who used to be involved in all sorts of trouble at football - i know him very well

Anyway ive said my piece

Time for a :drink:
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Jolly Jack
Unregistered

B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:30 PM
Jolly Jack
Oct 28 2010, 02:28 PM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:12 PM
As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.

what if they are one in the same Jolly Jack

Meaning?

I hope you're not suggesting that servicemen are involved in any of the stupidness.

Quote:
 
What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.


You hit the nail on the head. 15 year old cretins brought up on bad paperback memoirs, bad films and 'glory days' drivel from fat blokes who were never there. "It got a bit cheeky; loads of claret" - GFY.

very much so Jolly Jack

just like Bumble fails to believe that a Boxer could be involved

Sorry I don't believe that any Serviceman would take part in any organised hooligan activity. they have too much self control and pride in themselves. Not saying stuff happens on the streets, but organised like fat Danny dyer wannabees - never.

Any Serviceman found to be involved in this would be utterly reamed. Not only would he be liable for all civvy offences he would have to request penalties under the AFA (yes- they get 'done' twice in effect) in addition to however many counts of bringing his particular service into disrepute. Maximum penalties are given as routine and always custodial in the lovely Military Corrective Training Centre in Colchester. They would, of course, deserve everthing they get.
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wardendblue
Olivier Tebily
[ *  *  * ]
i have seen a certain boxer well known down the blues with the ;old uns ; as there known now ...im not saying fighting or anything like that ,,but defo with the firm ,,,,,and old blues players at games with the lads ...its just something that happens and not just down the blues but at a lot of clubs ....
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B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Alex Govan
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Jolly Jack
Oct 28 2010, 02:44 PM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:30 PM
Jolly Jack
Oct 28 2010, 02:28 PM
B25 YEWTREE LOYAL
Oct 28 2010, 02:12 PM
As for all the other tripe on here about defending things etc - utter cobblers. People who fight at football are ****. If you want to learn how to do things properly - join up.

what if they are one in the same Jolly Jack

Meaning?

I hope you're not suggesting that servicemen are involved in any of the stupidness.

Quote:
 
What we have now is the dying ashes of half remembered pasts. Clueless 15 year olds mimicking what they think used to happen.


You hit the nail on the head. 15 year old cretins brought up on bad paperback memoirs, bad films and 'glory days' drivel from fat blokes who were never there. "It got a bit cheeky; loads of claret" - GFY.

very much so Jolly Jack

just like Bumble fails to believe that a Boxer could be involved

Sorry I don't believe that any Serviceman would take part in any organised hooligan activity. they have too much self control and pride in themselves. Not saying stuff happens on the streets, but organised like fat Danny dyer wannabees - never.

Any Serviceman found to be involved in this would be utterly reamed. Not only would he be liable for all civvy offences he would have to request penalties under the AFA (yes- they get 'done' twice in effect) in addition to however many counts of bringing his particular service into disrepute. Maximum penalties are given as routine and always custodial in the lovely Military Corrective Training Centre in Colchester. They would, of course, deserve everthing they get.

It happens Jack sorry to shatter any illusion you may have of those that serve...regardless of the deterrent.Going back to the 80's one of the lads was actually a serving police officer...amazing but true
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BARNETTSrun
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Malcom Page
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There are good people and bad people in EVERY walk of life

Lawyers Doctors Boxers Servicemen Policemen

I learnt to box as a way of channeling some agression and the fact i thought i was hard - i learnt the hard way - i was not

Some of the lads i knew at the gym used to be involved in violence and i am sure if u visit colchester or pylmouth on a saturday night - well i know !! you will find people from the services having fights like common hoolies

It does not matter who you are or what u learn or are taught . Its about being a good person and knowing right from wrong

Causing trouble and acting like a clown at football is not right never has been , wanting to fight someone because they support another bunch of footballers :blink:

The difference i learnt from learning to box was that getting punched on the nose till it shatters is not great fun, and it sure told me to respect other people

It taught me that standing oustide a pub or a train staion shouting and charging mob handed at people was not hard at all

However it is certainly not a cure and enrolling in the services is not one either




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Bumble
Ian Bennett
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bluenosekev
Oct 28 2010, 12:47 PM
West Heath Blue
Oct 28 2010, 11:23 AM
I don't think Bumble is really able to read a post without twisting it to suit his argument.

It is half term this week in case you havent noticed, Hence the likes of Bumble who have nothing better to do..

Kro.

Go hide behind your mates shouting abuse and making hand gestures at the next couple of 15 year old away supporters.
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Bumble
Ian Bennett
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The only solution I can think of is to let these a*seholes stay behind after the match and kick ****e out of one another on the pitch. The clubs can then pick up the bill and nobody else gets drawn into their mindless pathetic sad world. Of course this will never happen because in this country we protect the criminal first and the public second.
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thehod
Mikael Forssell
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Bumble
Oct 28 2010, 04:12 PM
The only solution I can think of is to let these a*seholes stay behind after the match and kick ****e out of one another on the pitch. The clubs can then pick up the bill and nobody else gets drawn into their mindless pathetic sad world. Of course this will never happen because in this country we protect the criminal first and the public second.

Why the hell should the club have to pick up the bill?

If they want, here's a patch of waste ground. Hand over your Blues scarves and shirts and badges, because this has nothing to do with Birmingham City, and have at it.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will get back to watching and talking about the game.
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