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Police Cuts ,tuition Fees Cut ,spending Cuts
Topic Started: Dec 9 2010, 09:28 PM (220 Views)
baron von bluenose
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Bob Latchford
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i dont get it what difference does it make if we owe 10 billion or a hundred billion its not real money,
was it cameron or clegg when asked how much is the country's national debt and didnt know the answer yet there doing all they can to cut it.

can we have a debate where we can have logic respect and one that comes up with a solution.

im dread to think what its going to be like for the future generations.

ding ding round 1
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Luseth
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Garry Pendrey
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Personal opinion is that if this not so real money is not paid back the value of the pound goes down, and it will go down dramatically unless a line is drawn...

Now I personally voted the lib dems thinking it would be different, it could be a change for the better so don't say im a typical tory and base my views on it...

My opinion is that the Tories are doing these cuts, though many believe it is for their own gain, and rightly so but for the country on the whole...

If the country looks bad then so do they, so do all British in general.

All of these changes will not affect any of the older but mine and those that will come after... If the debt is decreased it will simply improve the lives of our children etc...

The labour party were going to decrease these debts slowly but at the end of the day it would take forever and no one would ever see the benefits of this?

Just think if the UK's debt were gone tomorrow it would mean prices lower, the vat would not have to be so high, national insurance would not have to be so high, taxes in general... More jobs for people within the public sector i.e. teaching etc which would then improve the educational system, the healthcare system etc etc... Think of the butterfly effect... one thing changes then everything does...
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pestcontrol
Unregistered

Well it was Labour that set the ball rolling by the introduction of tuition fees, they also opend the floodgates for students to fall into university but been the true hypocrites that they are those facts are just ignored.

Just like the Guardian Media Group and tax avoidence £302 million profit in 2008 and not one penny in corporation tax. here is another very good short film that explains how these corporations avoid it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBt8xEWP7RU
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baron von bluenose
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Bob Latchford
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thats the biggest problem only employed workers actually pay tax, through p.a.y.e , playing the system is far to easy and big companies like the guardian group shouldnt need to dodge tax if there making hundreds of millions.
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alfred E nueman
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Mikael Forssell
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The "cuts" were always on the agenda.

This Tory obsession with the State payroll was there for all to see. Osbourne was kept away as much as possible from the media during the election, because he nearly blew the gaff.

Labour are not innocent, they borrowed to invest in jobs and infrastructure. Their plans for repayment depended on growth.... that greater employment would bring. That is, down the line when we were getting tax revenues back.

The red mist seems to have gone to some Tory heads. Cut, slash and burn. Because Thatcher did it so it must be the Holy Grail.

Thing is, although the NHS is ring fenced in terms of investment - thousands of NHS jobs will go...WHY?

Because the NHS money will be paid for outsourcing to private medical centres. So the NHS will be run down, but the promised money will go to the BUPAs and suchlike to build them up. They will in affect be sub contractors.
And waiting lists?...Exactly.

With over £50 billion tax going uncollected from the multi-nationals...PER YEAR...why this agenda to cut and burn to reclaim £89 billion over 5 years?

That is not the Toryism that MacMillan and Heath supported.
It is the Toryism of zealots and Thatcher-children whose grasp of living on low incomes and needing support services, is basically non-existant.
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Migster
Bob Latchford
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I reckon the graduate tax needs to be re-investigated, otherwise bright poor kids are going to suffer. Reducing university places must also happen for rinky-dink degrees like Swedish Lesbian Studies.

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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
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Luseth
Dec 9 2010, 10:23 PM
Personal opinion is that if this not so real money is not paid back the value of the pound goes down, and it will go down dramatically unless a line is drawn...

Now I personally voted the lib dems thinking it would be different, it could be a change for the better so don't say im a typical tory and base my views on it...

My opinion is that the Tories are doing these cuts, though many believe it is for their own gain, and rightly so but for the country on the whole...

If the country looks bad then so do they, so do all British in general.

All of these changes will not affect any of the older but mine and those that will come after... If the debt is decreased it will simply improve the lives of our children etc...

The labour party were going to decrease these debts slowly but at the end of the day it would take forever and no one would ever see the benefits of this?

Just think if the UK's debt were gone tomorrow it would mean prices lower, the vat would not have to be so high, national insurance would not have to be so high, taxes in general... More jobs for people within the public sector i.e. teaching etc which would then improve the educational system, the healthcare system etc etc... Think of the butterfly effect... one thing changes then everything does...

I think this post ends the debate. Great post.
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Zulu Dwarf
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Paul Tait
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Debt is control over an individual

Religion is control over an individual with no debt

**thumbup

:Blues:
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dr.nick
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Trevor Francis
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Zulu Dwarf
Dec 10 2010, 10:38 AM
Debt is control over an individual

Religion is control over an individual with no debt

**thumbup

:Blues:

I'm free then no debt not religious :D
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keepthecityblue
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Frank Worthington
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alfred E nueman
Dec 10 2010, 08:07 AM
Thing is, although the NHS is ring fenced in terms of investment - thousands of NHS jobs will go...WHY?

Because the NHS is overloaded with admin staff and other pencil pushers - who simply count figures etc.

I know why people panic when they hear about job losses in the NHS - but the NHS is hugely overstaffed in terms of admin.

IMO they should massively cut much of the admin jobs - and put this money into frontline services (I dont know if this is their plan, only time will tell) - BUT the NHS has far too much bureaucracy and red tape.
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Zulu Dwarf
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Paul Tait
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dr.nick
Dec 10 2010, 11:32 AM
Zulu Dwarf
Dec 10 2010, 10:38 AM
Debt is control over an individual

Religion is control over an individual with no debt

**thumbup

:Blues:

I'm free then no debt not religious :D

:LOL:

:Blues:
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elvis ok
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Malcom Page
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keepthecityblue
Dec 10 2010, 12:37 PM
alfred E nueman
Dec 10 2010, 08:07 AM
Thing is, although the NHS is ring fenced in terms of investment - thousands of NHS jobs will go...WHY?

Because the NHS is overloaded with admin staff and other pencil pushers - who simply count figures etc.

I know why people panic when they hear about job losses in the NHS - but the NHS is hugely overstaffed in terms of admin.

IMO they should massively cut much of the admin jobs - and put this money into frontline services (I dont know if this is their plan, only time will tell) - BUT the NHS has far too much bureaucracy and red tape.

You live in hope man :LMAO:

Try and understand what is going on.

All these Admin jobs are not made up. They exist for a reason. They keep your records. They allocate resources.They balance budgets and beds.

These jobs will go,from within the NHS, and I hope you will be happy, because although the jobs will go, the work remains.

And that will be done by private companies - paid out of the NHS budgets. As Alf says.

It isn't "pretend" work that adminstrators do - they have paperwork from the police (RTAs), from local GPs from councils, from relatives,from courts, from charities from auditors from drug companies (very pushy) contractors (builders to electricians) and on and on.

What you dismiss in your Daily Mail bogeyman swipe about pencil pushers is infantile man. An ex of mine worked in admin at a large midlands hospital - she was burnt out and couldn't wait to find another job, but stayed too long because of some commitment to the NHS.

You'll be happy when those jobs go man, I bet. But they will only be sub contracted out to private companies. I hope you will be happy when 'Arthur Daley Security Ltd' handles your health records instead of an NHS pencil pusher.

:banghead:

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SHA007
Geoff Horsfield
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elvis ok
Dec 10 2010, 05:04 PM
keepthecityblue
Dec 10 2010, 12:37 PM
alfred E nueman
Dec 10 2010, 08:07 AM
Thing is, although the NHS is ring fenced in terms of investment - thousands of NHS jobs will go...WHY?

Because the NHS is overloaded with admin staff and other pencil pushers - who simply count figures etc.

I know why people panic when they hear about job losses in the NHS - but the NHS is hugely overstaffed in terms of admin.

IMO they should massively cut much of the admin jobs - and put this money into frontline services (I dont know if this is their plan, only time will tell) - BUT the NHS has far too much bureaucracy and red tape.

You live in hope man :LMAO:

Try and understand what is going on.

All these Admin jobs are not made up. They exist for a reason. They keep your records. They allocate resources.They balance budgets and beds.

These jobs will go,from within the NHS, and I hope you will be happy, because although the jobs will go, the work remains.

And that will be done by private companies - paid out of the NHS budgets. As Alf says.

It isn't "pretend" work that adminstrators do - they have paperwork from the police (RTAs), from local GPs from councils, from relatives,from courts, from charities from auditors from drug companies (very pushy) contractors (builders to electricians) and on and on.

What you dismiss in your Daily Mail bogeyman swipe about pencil pushers is infantile man. An ex of mine worked in admin at a large midlands hospital - she was burnt out and couldn't wait to find another job, but stayed too long because of some commitment to the NHS.

You'll be happy when those jobs go man, I bet. But they will only be sub contracted out to private companies. I hope you will be happy when 'Arthur Daley Security Ltd' handles your health records instead of an NHS pencil pusher.

:banghead:

The difference between the private sector and the public sector is the bureaucratic swamp.

The private sector needs to be lean, maean and efficient otherwise the company goes under. The public sector love bureaucracy, just loves it..........."I'm just going to fill out a Form 135-H to requisition a pencil and then get my supervisor and his manager to sign said form"

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elvis ok
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Malcom Page
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SHA007
Dec 10 2010, 05:12 PM
The difference between the private sector and the public sector is the bureaucratic swamp.

The private sector needs to be lean, maean and efficient otherwise the company goes under. The public sector love bureaucracy, just loves it..........."I'm just going to fill out a Form 135-H to requisition a pencil and then get my supervisor and his manager to sign said form"

Fantasy land.

Do you propose that private companies will not charge for the burdens legally placed on the Civil Service?

They may not request a pen if their budget doesn't run to it, so they will not make the required entry.
How about that as an equally absurd conjecture man?

I have no problem with efficiency fella, I do have a problem with anyone making a proffit out of ill health.
Putting shareholders renumeration BEFORE resources.
That will have to happen if the plan is going to work - and it will under this no-idea government. More and more dosh will be syphoned off the NHS budgets to help 'prove' that Arthur Daley Security Ltd can do the job.

Your knowledge of the bureaucracy in private companies seems a bit naive if you don't mind my saying. They also have forms to fill in for stores and resources - yes, as meagre as a pen or pencil.

When you next consider an NHS admin worker struggling over a mythical "Form 135-H" to get a pencil, also consider that person phoning and ringing around the country for a liver transplant, working on for hours without pay to fill in the required legalities from private databases - to see the job through.

Then make a facile comment about them.



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