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This Will Be Controversial I Suppose
Topic Started: Jul 8 2011, 05:39 AM (1,014 Views)
maulley54
Mikael Forssell
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i have made a donation to lenny henrys appeal regarding the drought in east africa, but (and they talked about this years ago) why do these people keep re producing in alarming numbers. all the camps you see have women surrounded by 3 or 4 very seriously ill kids which is an absolute tragedy but why do they keep creating kids. come on lenny spend some of it on education like you all said 15 years ago.
and by the way if you can make a donation however small please please do.
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willvbcfc
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Gil Merrick
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I agree - money needs to be spent on education and advancing society to a point where intelligence starts to overpower the dominating constraints of organised religion, which divisively prevents them from using contraception/accepting gay people and generally moving forward as a society.

Then again, with the amount of foreign aid given by the government and in the light of their recent decision to steal £30,000 of my mother's pension, I'm not feeling to charitable in general.
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SimonBCFC
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Mike Skinner
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We should be sending condoms not cash

CASH FOR CONDOMS
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lordnewtown
Geoff Horsfield
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SimonBCFC
Jul 8 2011, 08:10 AM
We should be sending condoms not cash

CASH FOR CONDOMS

I suppose you think the starving children should get their crappy lives in order too yeah?
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SimonBCFC
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Mike Skinner
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lordnewtown
Jul 8 2011, 09:17 AM
SimonBCFC
Jul 8 2011, 08:10 AM
We should be sending condoms not cash

CASH FOR CONDOMS

I suppose you think the starving children should get their crappy lives in order too yeah?

What’s your problem? You really need to sort yourself out before you start having a go at someone who gave you an honest answer with regards to your situation.

Oh and I've actually spent a week in Mali and seen this first hand and do copious amounts of charity work with Water Aid. Not that I need to justify myself to you.
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
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High infant mortality rates, Short life expectancies, poor education, poor health care. I would attribute more of their problems to the crippling debt that the west choose to keep them in rather than religion.
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lordnewtown
Geoff Horsfield
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SimonBCFC
Jul 8 2011, 08:24 AM
lordnewtown
Jul 8 2011, 09:17 AM
SimonBCFC
Jul 8 2011, 08:10 AM
We should be sending condoms not cash

CASH FOR CONDOMS

I suppose you think the starving children should get their crappy lives in order too yeah?

What’s your problem? You really need to sort yourself out before you start having a go at someone who gave you an honest answer with regards to your situation.

Oh and I've actually spent a week in Mali and seen this first hand and do copious amounts of charity work with Water Aid. Not that I need to justify myself to you.

Ok, it makes sense now
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treetop
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Alex Govan
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SimonBCFC
Jul 8 2011, 08:10 AM
We should be sending condoms not cash

CASH FOR CONDOMS

Absolutley spot on Simon. **thumbup

All the millions that has been sent there over the years through 'Children in need'
'Comic Relief' etc. Yet the problems remain the same year in year out.

Before anyone says tight-fisted git, we donate every month by direct debit to a worthy cause.
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Spike014
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Geoff Horsfield
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We should be concentrating on our own country first, just saying.
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turunc
Frank Worthington
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Spike014
Jul 8 2011, 10:47 AM
We should be concentrating on our own country first, just saying.

I am sure I heard somewhere that Germany and another major European country is questioning their requirement to keep handing out sizeable financial support for countries like Greece, due to constitutional rights.

If this is the case then I beleive Britain should be looking into the same thing, this country is in a dire mess financially with residents struggling to afford to feed families themselves. Why it always has to be Britain at the front of every military campaign, which costs the country millions, possibly billions and handing out charity left right and centre is beyond me.

I understand the serious nature of the situation in Africa, but as has been posted what has happened to the millions of pounds of charity money that has already poured into this country, why has this not already put an infrastructure in place to avert these situations and what is the ruling governments doing to help their residents.

If you have a drug addict that is killing themselves you don't just keep giving them money, you set up rehabilitation centres which they can attend and get help. I think the fundamental issues in Africa are not being dealt with for what ever reason and before funds keep being poured into the country these should be addressed. I am 46 and all of my life I can remember documentaries about Africa, we can all remember being told by our parents how lucky we were and how children in these countries have nothing, in all the time that has elapsed surely with the funding that has been raised and sent the situation should be better than it is?

It would be interesting to see an actual figure of charity finance provided to Africa over say the last two decades and more importantly how that money has been spent.

This very likely comes across as callous, however it is not meant to be no one likes to see children suffer, but every new disaster can not just be met with more requests for charity funds, without providing the people who are providing the money with information about how previous funding has been spent.

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Kaje
Garry Pendrey
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Why is it that every other country in the world has gone through these issues in their past (distant past, granted) and managed to sort themselves out - whereas Africa seems to rely on money from everyone else?

Their climate isn't that far removed from the Australian Outback, where Aborigines live in relative comfort - could we get them to go and teach people in Africa how to look after themselves?

And yes, the reproduction thing is a huge issue - they shouldn't be bringing children into the world who have a minimal chance of life.

I'm definitely with those above who say we need to sort ourselves out before others. Whilst there are people living on the streets and families living below the poverty line in THIS country, we should NOT be helping other countries.
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treetop
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Alex Govan
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Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:13 AM
Why is it that every other country in the world has gone through these issues in their past (distant past, granted) and managed to sort themselves out - whereas Africa seems to rely on money from everyone else?

Their climate isn't that far removed from the Australian Outback, where Aborigines live in relative comfort - could we get them to go and teach people in Africa how to look after themselves?

And yes, the reproduction thing is a huge issue - they shouldn't be bringing children into the world who have a minimal chance of life.

I'm definitely with those above who say we need to sort ourselves out before others. Whilst there are people living on the streets and families living below the poverty line in THIS country, we should NOT be helping other countries.

:applause:
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lordnewtown
Geoff Horsfield
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Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:13 AM
Why is it that every other country in the world has gone through these issues in their past (distant past, granted) and managed to sort themselves out - whereas Africa seems to rely on money from everyone else?

Their climate isn't that far removed from the Australian Outback, where Aborigines live in relative comfort - could we get them to go and teach people in Africa how to look after themselves?

And yes, the reproduction thing is a huge issue - they shouldn't be bringing children into the world who have a minimal chance of life.

I'm definitely with those above who say we need to sort ourselves out before others. Whilst there are people living on the streets and families living below the poverty line in THIS country, we should NOT be helping other countries.

When you're on a plane and they're going through the safety drills, they always say "Put your own oxygen mask on first before attending to your child's".

Because your child really will be screwed if you yourself can't breath. You make sure that YOU are okay so that you are in a position to help others.

Charity maybe should have the same idea.
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:
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Kaje
Garry Pendrey
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blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:37 AM
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:

Yep, withdraw the funding and see how they get on. I bet they'd do just as well OR actually make an effort to change things themselves.
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
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Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:38 AM
blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:37 AM
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:

Yep, withdraw the funding and see how they get on. I bet they'd do just as well OR actually make an effort to change things themselves.

Tell you what, why don't we just nuke the continent.
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Kaje
Garry Pendrey
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blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:41 AM
Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:38 AM
blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:37 AM
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:

Yep, withdraw the funding and see how they get on. I bet they'd do just as well OR actually make an effort to change things themselves.

Tell you what, why don't we just nuke the continent.

Or reduce/withdraw our funding and rectify our own problems first, before reintroducing a structured funding package based on the continent/certain countries progressing to certain standards of living?
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
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Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:46 AM
blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:41 AM
Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:38 AM
blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:37 AM
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:

Yep, withdraw the funding and see how they get on. I bet they'd do just as well OR actually make an effort to change things themselves.

Tell you what, why don't we just nuke the continent.

Or reduce/withdraw our funding and rectify our own problems first, before reintroducing a structured funding package based on the continent/certain countries progressing to certain standards of living?

Maybe after centuries of exploiting the continent in terms of the slave trade and their resources as well as the debt, and continuing to do so, aid is the least we can offer.
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SimonBCFC
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Mike Skinner
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blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 12:37 PM
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:

That's bang out of order... :banghead:


















Would have it wrapped up within minutes and be down the pub :dancer: :lager:
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
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Hold the conference in the pub and we'll sort out all the worlds woes in one night :lager:
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Kaje
Garry Pendrey
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blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 12:05 PM
Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:46 AM
blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:41 AM
Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 11:38 AM
blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 11:37 AM
You lot should join the UN, you could sort out the Africa problem in a couple of hours.

The insight offered here is mind blowing.

:break:

Yep, withdraw the funding and see how they get on. I bet they'd do just as well OR actually make an effort to change things themselves.

Tell you what, why don't we just nuke the continent.

Or reduce/withdraw our funding and rectify our own problems first, before reintroducing a structured funding package based on the continent/certain countries progressing to certain standards of living?

Maybe after centuries of exploiting the continent in terms of the slave trade and their resources as well as the debt, and continuing to do so, aid is the least we can offer.

That was a long time ago, isn't it time we all moved on from that?

I certainly didn't attack the continent and capture people to use as slaves, yet some of the tax I pay goes to Africa.

Why should we be punished for something our ancestors did to their ancestors hundreds of years ago?
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SimonBCFC
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Mike Skinner
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blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 01:08 PM
Hold the conference in the pub and we'll sort out all the worlds woes in one night :lager:

I like the cut of your jib sir

:lager:
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blueblood
Johnny Vincent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Kaje
Jul 8 2011, 12:11 PM
That was a long time ago, isn't it time we all moved on from that?

I certainly didn't attack the continent and capture people to use as slaves, yet some of the tax I pay goes to Africa.

Why should we be punished for something our ancestors did to their ancestors hundreds of years ago?

I mentioned the slave trade to show how far the exploitation stretches back, centuries, which continues to this day.

The continent is $200 billion in debt, they have to spend more repaying this debt than they can on their own peoples welfare. The west is keeping them in poverty so the least we can do is offer a little bit of aid.



:break:
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NeilM
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Frank Worthington
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You could also say the middle east countries should be giving money to Africa for the slave trade as well, as there were running the slave trade long before Europeans came along, although it was not as big, plus the internal slavery in Africa between tribes etc, I'm not condoning it whoever did/does it, but it's just not that simple.

China is now the next country exploiting Africa, I wonder how much they give in aid with all the billions they have? And that is a country that has poor almost in as bad condition as Africa in some areas.

One of the biggest issues in Africa is politics, not just the amount of dictators and wars that have happened, but the tribalism, these are issues that also need resolving, but until some "enlightenment" happens in African politics, then we will be going through the same things in 50 years time.
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keepthecityblue
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Frank Worthington
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blueblood
Jul 8 2011, 12:27 PM
I mentioned the slave trade to show how far the exploitation stretches back, centuries, which continues to this day.

The continent is $200 billion in debt, they have to spend more repaying this debt than they can on their own peoples welfare. The west is keeping them in poverty so the least we can do is offer a little bit of aid.



:break:

I take your point with the debt - and I do think it is a good one.

But the slave trade has little relevance to the plights of present day Africa - and the whole "White/Western guilt" is ridiculous.

Firstly - Africans too played their part in the slave trade as "sellers". POWs and rival tribes were sold into the slave trade by Africans.

Secondly, the Europeans involved in the slave trade were a tiny fraction of the European population - these were the rich elites of the time. To blame the mass of the population, even of the era, would be wrong - never mind their decendents of 200 years on.

On the population issue - that is a major one. It is difficult because people (with good intentions) don't like to criticise those in major difficutly too much. It feels almost like kicking them while they are down.
But to take one of the well-known countries for an example - the population of Ethiopia at the time of the feed the world campaign was around 34 million.
Today the population is around 75 million .
That means the population has more than doubled, since a time when the country could not feed itself. Unfortunatley the food situation has not improved dramatically, and the country is heavily reliant on food aid from the rest of the world.

BUT, if the population continues to grow at such rates, there will come a point where the rest of the world cannot afford to feed them. Their population is already bigger than that of the UK. And they are by no means the only country which struggles in feeding itself.

The demographics has to be addressed. The hard but simple truth is that Africans must stop having more children then they themselves can support.

People who really care about humanity have to recognise this, because the results will be catastrophic. Food and water are limited resources, and shortages of them causes death and war.
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