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Norway; Bomb and Massacre
Topic Started: Jul 25 2011, 10:05 PM (284 Views)
midland red
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Mikael Forssell
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Just hours before carrying out the brutal twin-attacks in Norway on Friday, Anders Breivik sent friends a 1,500 page manifesto detailing his extreme right-wing ideology.

The document, called "2083: A European Declaration of Independence," strongly condemns Norway's liberal policies and the spread of multiculturalism, saying it is leading to the "Islamization of Europe."

He claimed to have links with the English anti-Muslim party, the English Defense League, and referred directly to Geert Wilders Dutch Freedom Party, which props up the country's center-right coalition.


I'm surprised to see none of our resident right-wingers have posted or started a thread about what is probably the biggest obscenity since 9/11.

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Bob Latchford
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I'm surprised no one has commented on here about this tragedy, yet the thread about a drug taking singer runs to 3 pages.

Speaks volumes about society......
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tim
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Malcom Page
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Because the thread has been deliberately started by Midland Red as a goading topic on immigration and facism rather than how 'how sad' sort?

Says a lot more about Midland Red if anything.
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Bob Latchford
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tim
Jul 26 2011, 10:36 AM
Because the thread has been deliberately started by Midland Red as a goading topic on immigration and facism rather than how 'how sad' sort?

Says a lot more about Midland Red if anything.

My point was about the complete lack of discussion on this topic, yet theres loads of post about Any Winehouse, just wrong ino
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TF62
Jose Dominguez
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midland red
Jul 25 2011, 10:05 PM



I'm surprised to see none of our resident right-wingers have posted or started a thread about what is probably the biggest obscenity since 9/11.

I find this very distasteful.

I hope that no one takes the bait and uses this awful event as a right vs left playground fight.

It's a tragedy, the guy is a psychopath and anyone who's been to Norway will know it's a beautiful country full of well educated, very nice people. I believe the lack of comment on here about it is because it is so sad. The country just isn't prepared for such things. If the reports are correct, there is only one Police helicopter in the country and the Police had to drive some 50 miles then find a boat to get to the island. It was like taking candy from a child; the slaughter of defenseless innocents.

I'm sure there are "right-wingers" on here, as well as "left-wingers" but trying to instigate political antagonism through such a tragedy is wrong imo.

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keepthecityblue
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Frank Worthington
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Jul 26 2011, 11:57 AM
My point was about the complete lack of discussion on this topic, yet theres loads of post about Any Winehouse, just wrong ino

I think its because there is nothing to discuss really.

Much like the Columbine High School shootings, all you can really say is RIP to the victims.

Anything more tends to just be hysterical reactionism, about banning whatever is percieved to have influenced those inspired by their own psychopathy
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Jim Jimmeney
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Paul Tait
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Extreme right wing views and extreme left wing views are very close to each other as has been discussed many times on here.

This bloke is just plain evil and nuts it almost doesn’t matter if he right or left wing views what matters is that we live in a world where an evil few can influence our lives so easily.

The problem is there no way of isolating and stopping the few of them without stripping the rest of us of our basic civil liberties.
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tim
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Malcom Page
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Raters
Jul 26 2011, 11:57 AM
tim
Jul 26 2011, 10:36 AM
Because the thread has been deliberately started by Midland Red as a goading topic on immigration and facism rather than how 'how sad' sort?

Says a lot more about Midland Red if anything.

My point was about the complete lack of discussion on this topic, yet theres loads of post about Any Winehouse, just wrong ino

Yeah, fair point, can't disagree with that **thumbup
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ringo182
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Geoff Horsfield
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tim
Jul 26 2011, 08:14 PM
Raters
Jul 26 2011, 11:57 AM
tim
Jul 26 2011, 10:36 AM
Because the thread has been deliberately started by Midland Red as a goading topic on immigration and facism rather than how 'how sad' sort?

Says a lot more about Midland Red if anything.

My point was about the complete lack of discussion on this topic, yet theres loads of post about Any Winehouse, just wrong ino

Yeah, fair point, can't disagree with that **thumbup

well as mentioned, there is nothing to discuss on this topic.

the death of amy winehouse has led to numerous reactions which is what leads to discussion.
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keepthecityblue
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Frank Worthington
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Jim Jimmeney
Jul 26 2011, 07:25 PM
The problem is there no way of isolating and stopping the few of them without stripping the rest of us of our basic civil liberties.

I think thats very true.

And in fact, could go further, as I don't even think that by putting massive restrictions on liberties you will stop such people.

Just as gun control laws don't eliminate gun crime, and drugs laws don't eliminate drug crime, "banning" people from holding certain points of view, or increasing the states spying capacities on its citizens will never stop certain people carrying out acts of evil -whatever their cause/illness.
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treetop
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Alex Govan
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TF62
Jul 26 2011, 12:28 PM
midland red
Jul 25 2011, 10:05 PM



I'm surprised to see none of our resident right-wingers have posted or started a thread about what is probably the biggest obscenity since 9/11.

I find this very distasteful.

I hope that no one takes the bait and uses this awful event as a right vs left playground fight.

It's a tragedy, the guy is a psychopath and anyone who's been to Norway will know it's a beautiful country full of well educated, very nice people. I believe the lack of comment on here about it is because it is so sad. The country just isn't prepared for such things. If the reports are correct, there is only one Police helicopter in the country and the Police had to drive some 50 miles then find a boat to get to the island. It was like taking candy from a child; the slaughter of defenseless innocents.

I'm sure there are "right-wingers" on here, as well as "left-wingers" but trying to instigate political antagonism through such a tragedy is wrong imo.

Quote:
 
I believe the lack of comment on here about it is because it is so sad.
:applause:

I have to agree very sad indeed. Also what is there to say? I think any decent person can only imagine what that country and the families of the victims are going through. I have Grandchildren of a similar age this incident sent shivers down my spine.
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Jim Jimmeney
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Paul Tait
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keepthecityblue
Jul 26 2011, 11:27 PM
Jim Jimmeney
Jul 26 2011, 07:25 PM
The problem is there no way of isolating and stopping the few of them without stripping the rest of us of our basic civil liberties.

I think thats very true.

And in fact, could go further, as I don't even think that by putting massive restrictions on liberties you will stop such people.

Just as gun control laws don't eliminate gun crime, and drugs laws don't eliminate drug crime, "banning" people from holding certain points of view, or increasing the states spying capacities on its citizens will never stop certain people carrying out acts of evil -whatever their cause/illness.

Sadly very true too.
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elvis ok
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Malcom Page
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I think the point that Midland man was making is rather skirted by isn't it?

Within hours of that tragedy, US media were flagging up some obscure Islamist / Terrorist / bunch of bankers claining responsibilty.
The looney right in the UK and France went hysterical.

With a few more hours it was looking to be a looney fascist that caused the devastation.

Midland was posting what turned out to be the only post about Norway.

He could have been a bit more diplomatic, but that's him like :LMAO:

But his point stands in my eyes.

If that was an Islamist attrocity, we would have been into Page 200 on here.

Don't kid yourselves. We get people perpetuating threads going to 10 or more pages on some guy who claims housing benefit and has 20 kids, who is muslim.

Norway sorted out reponsibilities quickly. Thus we get silence from the usual anti-Islamist posters.

If I can read that, surely you all can. Forget the bait like.

If we can do page upon page about "muslim benefit scroungers", how come none of the usual suspects have a word to say about this?

Are they all spilling their hate on an addicted but talented, jewish, female musician?
I've been off this forum for a month or two and am catching up.
What I expected to see was not what I saw.

One thread ( a wind-up I think) about the biggest atrocity in Europe since the second world war. And No Comments about the issue, just about the poster.

Says a lot, to coin a phrase.

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keepthecityblue
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Frank Worthington
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elvis ok
Jul 28 2011, 10:23 PM
I think the point that Midland man was making is rather skirted by isn't it?

Within hours of that tragedy, US media were flagging up some obscure Islamist / Terrorist / bunch of bankers claining responsibilty.
The looney right in the UK and France went hysterical.

With a few more hours it was looking to be a looney fascist that caused the devastation.

Midland was posting what turned out to be the only post about Norway.

He could have been a bit more diplomatic, but that's him like :LMAO:

But his point stands in my eyes.

If that was an Islamist attrocity, we would have been into Page 200 on here.

Don't kid yourselves. We get people perpetuating threads going to 10 or more pages on some guy who claims housing benefit and has 20 kids, who is muslim.

Norway sorted out reponsibilities quickly. Thus we get silence from the usual anti-Islamist posters.

If I can read that, surely you all can. Forget the bait like.

If we can do page upon page about "muslim benefit scroungers", how come none of the usual suspects have a word to say about this?

Are they all spilling their hate on an addicted but talented, jewish, female musician?
I've been off this forum for a month or two and am catching up.
What I expected to see was not what I saw.

One thread ( a wind-up I think) about the biggest atrocity in Europe since the second world war. And No Comments about the issue, just about the poster.

Says a lot, to coin a phrase.

I would say the reason there's not a response from "anti-Islamist" posters is that the atrocity hasn't anything to do with Islam.
Hence, there is little to say about this from that point of view.

However, you say the "looney right" in the UK and France went hysterical - but of course, almost all media is hysterical.

Just look at the reaction with the "links to the EDL" (which were weak to unsubstantiated).

The media is always looking to sensationalise a story because, like it or not, it does manage to shift more papers/get more viewers.

On the issue...

Firstly, the guy most certainly isn't a "Neo-Nazi" (as also claimed by hysterical media reports). He fails on several accounts with his Pro-Zionism the stand out one. He was also wearing Freemasonry clothing in one picture. I think he was clearly anti-Islamic, but that was pretty much it.

I have heard some say there is hypocracy in the way that, if this were carried out in the name of Islam, then many would slag off Islam, but as it is an anti-Islamic white male it is being brushed under the carpet a bit.

However, I think the hypocracy is happening two-fold.

Those who say Islam is the sole reasoning for Islamic terrorists to do what they do, would be hypocritical to the extent that they are ignoring somebody else acting on their perceived beliefs to an extraordinarily violent extent.

But also, those who are "defenders" of Islam when it is attacked for extremism are also being hypocritical by claiming that this man shows the dangers of "the right-wing". As surely the line they should stick to is that "this man is not representative of the right-wing community as a whole, just a bad egg who has extreme beliefs"?

And finally, I think that his actions may be a look into the future at one thing that I think Brevik could be unfortunately right about, and that is an increasing "Balkanisation" of Europe. Ignore it some may, but religion sits uncomfortably with liberal democracy. Religion by it's very nature is fascist. It wishes to ban things, tell people what they can and can't do etc.

I know some people never wish to look at what they see as just "Doomsday scenarios", however, if tensions between sections of Muslims and non-Muslims continue to rise on both sides (and there is bigotry/racism on BOTH sides) then further violence like this would not seem unlikely.
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treetop
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Alex Govan
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And finally, I think that his actions may be a look into the future at one thing that I think Brevik could be unfortunately right about, and that is an increasing "Balkanisation" of Europe. Ignore it some may, but religion sits uncomfortably with liberal democracy. Religion by it's very nature is fascist. It wishes to ban things, tell people what they can and can't do etc.

I know some people never wish to look at what they see as just "Doomsday scenarios", however, if tensions between sections of Muslims and non-Muslims continue to rise on both sides (and there is bigotry/racism on BOTH sides) then further violence like this would not seem unlikely.

:applause:

Does this just not prove that although Multiculturalism works in a limited fashion in some areas, on the whole it does not work, never has and never will country wide.
Arears and cultures are so diverse.
I read somewhere the other day that the bureaucrats are trying to make it illegal or against human rights to ban people from entering the UK with the option of residing here permanently.
They are welcome to reside here but do not have to learn the language. My question would be will they be allowed to drive when they can't read road signs or any other danger signs etc?.
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