Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to bcfcforum.co.uk. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
No Technology - No Transparency; And No Accountability!
Topic Started: Aug 23 2011, 09:00 AM (779 Views)
Bluebird
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I have just come across this Link on another Forum:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-.../article/65340/

And all because the Football Dinosaurs are not prepared to accept the truth.

Quote:
 
Arsenal, Blackpool 'robbed' last term

According to a newly adjusted table, Arsenal would have been runners-up in the Premier League last season and Blackpool wouldn't have been relegated if match officials hadn't made mistakes.

Extensive new research conducted by broadcaster and journalist Tim Long for his radio documentary 'Beyond The Goal Line: Football's Technology Debate,' re-examined 731 ‘significant' incidents - penalties, goal line incidents and offside goals - across the Premier League's 380 games in 2010-11.

The Gunners finished fourth on 68 points but if the decisions had have gone the correct way, they would have finished second to Manchester United on 72 points.

Blackburn and Birmingham would have also avoided relegation while Wigan and Wolves would have suffered the heartbreak of relegation along with West Ham.

He stated that the research wasn't conducted to be critical of referees but to illustrate how even the simplest of technological advances can highlight erroneous decisions.

Long spent 250 hours analysing the 713 incidents, each of which on their own could or did lead to a goal. Of these, 361 involved penalties given (or not), and 152 involved goals given (or not) as a result of offside calls.

"That isn't a massive amount of incidents when you think about it, fewer than two per game on average," the journalist said.

"So supposing there was a system that allowed the video evidence to be reviewed at the time, looking at these things wouldn't necessarily take a long time.

"I wanted to explore the extent to which decisions about offside goals or penalty calls did, in fact, even themselves out or not, and how they made a difference to the end of season table."


Of course based on the information provided of analysing 713 incidents in 250hrs, that works out at approximately 21mins per incident. But I guess they must be referring to the amount of time he took to locate each incident, analyse and then compile his Report :blink: :unsure:

Bottom line - Incidents do not even themselves out over a Season for any Team with the exception of Spurs, Hub Nickers and Blackbum who should have no complaints :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Blue
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I just don't understand why so many ref's, linesmen and assistants are just total gimps. Surely there must be more people, with common sense, out there willing to take on the roles?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
grumpyoldman100
Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr. Blue
Aug 23 2011, 11:26 AM
I just don't understand why so many ref's, linesmen and assistants are just total gimps. Surely there must be more people, with common sense, out there willing to take on the roles?

I think if you ever attempted to referee a match you would find just how difficult it is.

Refs and linesmen have always made mistakes, the trouble is today there are loads of cameras every where and incidents can be reviewed over and over again, even then the pundits disagree on what the correct decision should be. The refs have a split second to make a decision.

Don't get me wrong I've ranted at officials at nearly every match I attend but they do have a difficult job.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bluecity043
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
So we shouldn't have been relegated? Well I never :angry:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wheniwinthelottery
Trevor Hockey
[ * ]
Don't get me wrong, I'm gutted we went down. BUT i just think it'd lose some of the excitement if there were never anyy mistakes made! I mean sometimes St Andrews only gets loud when people are having a go at the ref! Other times we've benefited from a wrong decision, and everyone has loved it. Bringing in technology would get rid of all of this, and at the end of the day if half the team had turned up against Fulham we probably wouldn't have gone down anyway.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sam_tiltonrdblue
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
football would be boring if every decision was right got to have some controversy
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
fatlad
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
what amazes me is that some geek has sat there want watched every game to come up with that conclusion

:D
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
blue casual
Member Avatar
Frank Worthington
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
sam_tiltonrdblue
Aug 23 2011, 11:10 AM
football would be boring if every decision was right got to have some controversy

Too true.

It also removes the ability to influence the referee in home fixtures, which would disadvantage and further pacify the vociferous, partisan crowd we have at St.Andrews.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Raters
Bob Latchford
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
blue casual
Aug 23 2011, 12:50 PM
sam_tiltonrdblue
Aug 23 2011, 11:10 AM
football would be boring if every decision was right got to have some controversy

Too true.

It also removes the ability to influence the referee in home fixtures, which would disadvantage and further pacify the vociferous, partisan crowd we have at St.Andrews.

Good point, never thought of that :applause:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Elvis
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Its all speculation really - if a goal had been given where previously it wasn't, you have no idea how this would have effected the game.. we may have scored an extra goal but that might have wound the other team up enough to score a futher two....

But I agree with the thought process of the technology - it should not be left up to an opinion when there is so much at stake....

But things happen for a reason and we would be even more sheete if we had this team in the premiership....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kroblues
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr. Blue
Aug 23 2011, 10:26 AM
I just don't understand why so many ref's, linesmen and assistants are just total gimps. Surely there must be more people, with common sense, out there willing to take on the roles?

Have you had a go then? I mean, if the solution's that obvious you must have seen how easy it is to referee a game, right?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Blue
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
kroblues
Aug 23 2011, 12:56 PM
Mr. Blue
Aug 23 2011, 10:26 AM
I just don't understand why so many ref's, linesmen and assistants are just total gimps. Surely there must be more people, with common sense, out there willing to take on the roles?

Have you had a go then? I mean, if the solution's that obvious you must have seen how easy it is to referee a game, right?

No I haven't had a go at Premier league level... I still recognise that some refs are gimps. Whats your point?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
blueblood
Johnny Vincent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr. Blue
Aug 23 2011, 10:26 AM
I just don't understand why so many ref's, linesmen and assistants are just total gimps. Surely there must be more people, with common sense, out there willing to take on the roles?

Have a go yourself then because you're clearly not a gimp.

Start with under 12s and I'll look forward to seeing you in the Premier League in the next 2 years. **thumbup
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
blueblood
Johnny Vincent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bluebird
Aug 23 2011, 09:00 AM
I have just come across this Link on another Forum:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-.../article/65340/

And all because the Football Dinosaurs are not prepared to accept the truth.

Quote:
 
Arsenal, Blackpool 'robbed' last term

According to a newly adjusted table, Arsenal would have been runners-up in the Premier League last season and Blackpool wouldn't have been relegated if match officials hadn't made mistakes.

Extensive new research conducted by broadcaster and journalist Tim Long for his radio documentary 'Beyond The Goal Line: Football's Technology Debate,' re-examined 731 ‘significant' incidents - penalties, goal line incidents and offside goals - across the Premier League's 380 games in 2010-11.

The Gunners finished fourth on 68 points but if the decisions had have gone the correct way, they would have finished second to Manchester United on 72 points.

Blackburn and Birmingham would have also avoided relegation while Wigan and Wolves would have suffered the heartbreak of relegation along with West Ham.

He stated that the research wasn't conducted to be critical of referees but to illustrate how even the simplest of technological advances can highlight erroneous decisions.

Long spent 250 hours analysing the 713 incidents, each of which on their own could or did lead to a goal. Of these, 361 involved penalties given (or not), and 152 involved goals given (or not) as a result of offside calls.

"That isn't a massive amount of incidents when you think about it, fewer than two per game on average," the journalist said.

"So supposing there was a system that allowed the video evidence to be reviewed at the time, looking at these things wouldn't necessarily take a long time.

"I wanted to explore the extent to which decisions about offside goals or penalty calls did, in fact, even themselves out or not, and how they made a difference to the end of season table."


Of course based on the information provided of analysing 713 incidents in 250hrs, that works out at approximately 21mins per incident. But I guess they must be referring to the amount of time he took to locate each incident, analyse and then compile his Report :blink: :unsure:

Bottom line - Incidents do not even themselves out over a Season for any Team with the exception of Spurs, Hub Nickers and Blackbum who should have no complaints :)

21 minutes per incident? :LOL:

The only significant incident which he can be qualified to give his opinion on would be ball going over the line for a goal. Because thats a fact.

His other significant incidents such as penalties, fouls and offsides are a matter of opinion from that of the match referee.

At the end of the day, any decision a referee makes on the pitch is his honest, unbiased decision based on the information he has infront of his from his position. If he makes a mistake then thats life. Players make just as many mistakes if not more.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevmag
Member Avatar
Martin Grainger
[ *  *  * ]



http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-.../article/65340/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
blueblood
Johnny Vincent
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Look at the topic below.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
brummie65
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
stevmag
Aug 23 2011, 02:24 PM

Its always been the same, I dont think we would have been relegated from prem at all due to poor decisions made. Just look back at each prem relegation season and check those games we were robbed!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kroblues
Member Avatar
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr. Blue
Aug 23 2011, 02:02 PM
kroblues
Aug 23 2011, 12:56 PM
Mr. Blue
Aug 23 2011, 10:26 AM
I just don't understand why so many ref's, linesmen and assistants are just total gimps. Surely there must be more people, with common sense, out there willing to take on the roles?

Have you had a go then? I mean, if the solution's that obvious you must have seen how easy it is to referee a game, right?

No I haven't had a go at Premier league level... I still recognise that some refs are gimps. Whats your point?

Did I say Premier League level? Even refereeing a game in the local leagues is hard, in some respects harder than in the higher leagues as you don't have assistants.

All I'm saying is that maybe you should try refereeing a game before you make judgements on the best in the country as being "gimps".
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Migster
Bob Latchford
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Refereeing's difficult. At any moment you get a second or so to make a decision, and you only get one go at it. And whilst it's okay for everybody else on the pitch to misplace passes or mistime tackles or any other number of mistakes, any error by the ref is pounced on by the fans and pundits who more often than not have the gift of replays from various angles.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
murasame
Member Avatar
Steve Claridge
[ *  *  * ]
I agree it's difficult. A referee gets just one look at an incident, which he has to judge in real time, from just one angle, which is often obscured by other players in between.

It doesn't help that those same players are also doing everything in their power to cheat or trick him into giving a wrong decision in their favour. I'm not just talking about diving or sneaky Henry/Maradona style handballs either, but every time a ball goes out for a throw-in both team's players will try to claim it, no matter how obvious it was who kicked it out.

Trying to officiate a game where cheating is widely accepted as part of it, where every error you make is broadcast to the world from every angle, leaving you open to ridicule from players, managers, fans, pundits etc is hard work. I feel a lot of sympathy for them and they should be given the help technology could provide.

It should be done on a 'challenge' basis like in tennis, cricket, American football etc, where teams can ask for decisions to be reviewed a certain number of times per match, only being overturned if it is proven conclusively that the original decision was wrong. Checking the tape should take no longer than a substitution and remove a lot of the bad feeling that can surround a game. For those that like a bit of controversy because it 'makes it interesting', would you also agree that an occasional wrongful criminal conviction is also fine as long as it keeps the judicial system 'interesting'?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Des
Malcom Page
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr Blue

so its pretty obvious that you have never officiated any game at any level.
It is a desperately difficult job whether its judging a penalty after a tangle of legs or deciding a close run out!
I support all officials 100% however if there is technology available it should be used.
Look at test cricket with Hawkeye, hotspot & the whole decision review system brilliant!!

KRO
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kyle-KRO
Member Avatar
Ian Handysides
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
If there had been the technology that is available now when professional football began, I've little doubt that they'd have used it... I don't like the 'human error is a part of the game' argument; I'm far more interested in getting decisions correct, and whatever helps officials do that should be utilised.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
brumtum
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Get over it,We have lived off the 66 world cup for all these years thanks to no line cameras :kiss:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
midland red
Member Avatar
Mikael Forssell
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Elvis
Aug 23 2011, 01:00 PM

But I agree with the thought process of the technology - it should not be left up to an opinion when there is so much at stake....

But things happen for a reason and we would be even more sheete if we had this team in the premiership....

It wouldn't be this team though would it Elvis?

We wouldn't have to find £40mill to pay wages of players and staff.

AND Mcleish would have come back from Corsica, refreshed, renewed and buying up 32 year old Scots and doling out £60k a week contracts to failed galacticos.

They say that Refs can't do post-match interviews because of the possibilty that clubs may appeal a decision they made - sub judice.
As much as I'd like a Ref to defend his assistant's decision when TV showed a ball over a line and the Ref supported his assistant, that it didn't - and squirm - it won't happen. :D

The score won't change will it?

Unless the Ref has access - or the 4th Official has access to instant replays, for a 3rd opinion - the game has to rely upon the ability, skills and integrity of the officials.

The elite squad of Refs are now on £60k (plus expenses) - the editor of a regional newspaper is on a par with a senior nurse - £25k...a year.

So, with their wages they should be able to accept the pressure that investigations like this prove. Accept the responsibility.

I'm glad they named Garret as making identical mistakes running the line.

**thumbup
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Elvis
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
midland red
Aug 24 2011, 12:11 AM
It wouldn't be this team though would it Elvis?

We wouldn't have to find £40mill to pay wages of players and staff.


I still believe that we would have had a huge exitus of players and no money available to invest in new players... but that's a little off topic....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Blues Chat · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Forum Design by Hirsty.