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| Stoke let Pulis Go; Silly | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 21 2013, 06:30 PM (447 Views) | |
| BluesBot | May 21 2013, 06:30 PM Post #1 |
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Paul Tait
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22614097 Stoke have let manager Tony Pulis leave the club, personally I reckon its a crazy decision, cant see them doing any better than with someone else - infact it could really backfire on them. Ok the brand of football wasnt the prettiest but it was effective and he kept them in the premier season after season. |
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| MikaelForssell | May 22 2013, 12:10 AM Post #2 |
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Jeff Hall
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Pulis had taken them as far as he could IMO. They nearly went down this season as teams worked them out and combated their strengths more effectively. It's a huge job for their next manager, changing an outdated, ugly style to a more unpredictable, "stylish" way of playing. |
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| SimonBCFC | May 22 2013, 10:02 AM Post #3 |
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Mike Skinner
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Agree he had taken them as far as they could. But their style has kept them in the Prem for years. I can see them struggling now, like Charlton when Curbs left |
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| Des | May 22 2013, 10:39 AM Post #4 |
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Malcom Page
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kept em up for six seasons..brilliant..style of football? personally couldnt give a damm, effort & application is what i look for...stoke had loads...be carefull what you wish for...kro |
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| Ian | May 22 2013, 10:47 AM Post #5 |
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Alex Govan
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What i find strange is that stoke played like Wimbledon with long ball rough them up tactics. People look back fondly at little old Wimbledon making there mark but stoke get no appreciation for what they have achieved. One thing is for sure about Pulis though, he has spent £73 million net on players in the last 5 years and he paid for Cameron Jerome, i tink its evident he cant be trusted with cash and cant spot a good player. |
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| lowdham bluenose | May 22 2013, 01:03 PM Post #6 |
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Joe Bradford
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Chris Hughton managed to do it at Blues. |
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| Des | May 22 2013, 01:25 PM Post #7 |
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Malcom Page
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He did change the style lowds & a lovable charmimg man he was, gave us some great moments Bruges away I`ll carry to my grave but were we ultimatly succesfull? Both previous times we went down under brucio & our most succesfull ever manager we came straight back up!...substance over style imho! KRO |
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| franscar | May 22 2013, 02:08 PM Post #8 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Wimbledon were basically a Sunday League team made good, they had more in common with amateur sides than the ultra-professional clubs of the 'elite'. There will never be another side like that again, hence why people quite enjoyed seeing them give Liverpool a bloody nose. Stoke on the other hand have spent a gargantuan sum of money to create a football team of incomparably horrific 'style'. I am all for populating the league with different methods and tactics, but the thought of physically paying money to watch Stoke makes me shudder. You'd be spending five minutes of every game watching a man dry a ball with a towel? I'd rather watch a McLeish team. |
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| Des | May 22 2013, 02:36 PM Post #9 |
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Malcom Page
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wouldnt we all rather that Frans, lifting the cup @ wembley after tactically out doingthe thinker arsene wenger, yea I`ll just carry that thought for the rest of the day. KRO |
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| MikaelForssell | May 22 2013, 03:37 PM Post #10 |
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Jeff Hall
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He did indeed... but the circumstances here were different in that we lost 20+ players that summer and he had room to bring in a few of his own players. Pulis' successor will be going into a well run Premier League club, with a lot of deadwood around the place, all set up in a way to play 'the Pulis way'. I'd imagine the Stoke board want to go in a new direction on the pitch so they're gonna need to give any new manager a lot of money, and hope other clubs take on some of their poorer players, otherwise it's just gonna end up round pegs in square holes for Stoke and they'll struggle again. Never liked Pulis anyway, glad Butland doesnt have to work under him |
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| Des | May 22 2013, 03:44 PM Post #11 |
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Malcom Page
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MF. Always thought he came across as level headed & knowledgable and as i said earlier promp & six seasons in the prem top man! KRO |
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| franscar | May 22 2013, 05:03 PM Post #12 |
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Mikael Forssell
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Can you explain to me how he tactically out-thought Wenger that day please? Go into as much detail as possible in your answer, as this seems to be the default response of the McLeish lovers to any criticism of their man. So please do back it up with some examples of what McLeish did that day which was so impressive tactically, preferably with some explanation as to why he didn't do it more often. Thanks. |
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| lowdham bluenose | May 22 2013, 07:46 PM Post #13 |
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Joe Bradford
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fe kk me Des, dementia looks to have set in. |
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| Des | May 23 2013, 10:02 AM Post #14 |
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Malcom Page
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No probs Frans do you want me to pm you? also dont you think his tactics played a part in us finishing in highest ever position in prem or was that just luck?? KRO |
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| franscar | May 23 2013, 10:42 AM Post #15 |
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Mikael Forssell
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No, you don't have to PM me, you can pop it all down here. It's hardly a big secret. Once you've explained the great tactical master plan from the Cup final, I'll happily go through the merits of the tactical approach in the 9th place finish. |
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| V_For_Vendetta | May 23 2013, 11:15 AM Post #16 |
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Paul Tait
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Like Pulis, McLeish only has one way to play. He had a game-plan for that first season in the PL. A drab 4-5-1 formation which changed to 4-4-2 when the fans protested in the game against Bolton where we lost 2-1 at home. Then we went on a 12-game unbeaten run with Jerome and Benitez scaring the hell out of opposition teams with their pace. Then he reverted back to 4-5-1 and the run ended. He began the 2010/11 season with 4-5-1 with the unfit Garry O'Connor leading the line - old pals with McLeish from their Scotland days and never good enough for the Premier League; McLeish stated that he wouldn't be pressured into changing tactics and so it continued all the way through the season - instead with the ineffectual Zigic and Jerome taking it in turns leading the line once O'Connor had disappeared. As a result of this incompetence and a refusal to try anything different, we were on the end of a good few hammerings, until we were relegated. It summed the man up when McLeish was delighted with a 0-0 draw against Wigan at home - a team who were bottom, and a team that we had beaten twice the season before. They had had 10 shots to our 4 yet McLeish thought we were the better team. McLeish left for Villa and the rest is history. |
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| lowdham bluenose | May 23 2013, 11:40 AM Post #17 |
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Joe Bradford
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Come on Des, let us all know. |
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| Des | May 23 2013, 03:59 PM Post #18 |
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Malcom Page
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so sorry Lowds & Frans for the delay but I`ve had to go back & take all the double & treble syllable words out then put explanations for the tactical expressions and relate them in a way you guys could understand. However, will I then have it sent out to you both in braille? as you know the old saying...theres none so blind as those that will not see!! KRO |
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| franscar | May 23 2013, 04:26 PM Post #19 |
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Mikael Forssell
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You can just write it in plain English rather than stalling. I'm not expecting you to demonstrate your no doubt Jonathan Wilson beating levels of tactical nous and discuss the finer points of false nines and inverted wing backs, I just want you to tell me how McLeish out thought Wenger in the cup final. If you can't do it, just say, rather than embarrass yourself with rather poor attempts to insult other people. |
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| Des | May 23 2013, 04:46 PM Post #20 |
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Malcom Page
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Right here goes. The self belief of the team on the day, on the front foot from opening minute! Zig playing on his own up front but isolated? never... midfield alongside & in front of him as he serially terrorised Koscielny. Bowyer classed as yesterdays man before Alex signed him raced through & was hauled down in second min by Szcesny, should have been a pen & sending off but lino got it wrong. Alex`s tactics were working already! Arsenal were totally apprehensive as our work rate was monumental seb, LB, Gards & specifically Bazzer, mcleish`s on field commandant showed how commitment tenacity energy & drive often win the day. First goal was straight out of the training ground long sweetly struck corner from Seb, RJ battered it on & lamp post serb nodded it in, congrats to the coaching staff..we owe you! Second half Arsenals class showed with RVP getting super goal but still Blues came back at them, how close was Keith Fahey who looked like a top international on the day when he hit the post with what would have been a winning goal! Then after any number of great Ben Foster saves had totally knocked the winds out of Arsenals sails (Alex you certainly know your keepers! Joe Hart & Ben Foster!!!!) we threw on TWO speedy strikers to administer the coup de grace! Keep the ball in the Arsenal area was the plan as the clock ticked down..A massive kick from Ben only a half hearted challenge from an exhausted Zig but poor old Laurent Koscielny was so mentally shot that his lame clearence only gave Martins the chance to win the game in the last minute, as the extra time minutes were relentlessly played down Cameron Jerome continually proved too strong & powerfull for all the arsenal players as he held the ball in the corners. From start to finish a tactical masterstroke by AM brilliantly played out by his players. With hindsight that was the best team I`ve ever seen seen watching the blues with the exception of the early Penguin years. Better even than Brucies 10th place lads! one special mention for steven carr strong as ahorse brave as a lion1 What a role model. Thanks for the memories they will go with me to my grave! KRO KRO |
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| franscar | May 23 2013, 05:17 PM Post #21 |
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Mikael Forssell
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The only things you have written there that refer to tactics is Zigic being played up front on his own and a concentration on set pieces. Workrate, commitment, desire, passion etc. are not tactics. I agree with you entirely that the side that went out that day displayed all of those qualities in spades. I will also agree with you that each and every one of them played either their finest or as near as makes no difference their finest game in a Blues shirt that day. If only McLeish could have dragged something approaching that sort of workrate, commitment, passion etc. out of them a couple more times that season, imagine... Anyway, those qualities are not tactical. Are you seriously suggesting that Wenger was 'out thought' by McLeish saying to his players 'run around loads' and put corners in the box? Really? It's hardly Rinus Michels-esque management, is it? You also seem quite confused about the chronology of the game, referring first of all to Van Persie scoring in the second half, which he didn't, and then to Jerome and Martins being thrown on before the winning goal. Martins was, obviously, but Jerome came on after the goal. He replaced Zigic, whose flick on led to the confusion in the Arsenal area. But these are mere details. Where McLeish did get it right in that game tactically was in two areas: the first was the initial line up which carried the correct balance between solidity and attacking threat; the second was in bringing on Martins to replace Fahey rather than making a more defensive substitution. In the vast majority of games in which the same situation occurred, he would have called for Parnaby, tried to shut up shop and played for the draw. On this one occasion he didn't. That was a fine decision which, coupled with the manner in which the players approached the game (workrate, commitment, passion, etc.) contributed hugely to the victory. But to claim they were tactical master strokes? No. There was nothing inventive about them, nothing unprecedented or novel. It was a 4-5-1 which was turned into a 4-4-2 in the closing stages. The same thing is done week in, week out all over the land. Wenger was not out thought by McLeish, his players were out fought by ours. Commitment is not a tactical matter. It's one of motivation. It's something McLeish's sides conspicuously lacked for the vast majority of that season. |
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| V_For_Vendetta | May 23 2013, 07:29 PM Post #22 |
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Paul Tait
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Des, The season you refer to - 2010/2011, we only won EIGHT games out of THIRTY-EIGHT in the league. In that time I remember us being hammered 5-0 at Man Utd and Liverpool respectively, along with losing crucial six-pointers against Wigan away and Fulham at home. The latter was one of the worst performances of watching Blues in living memory - we just rolled over and died. Where was McLeish's tactical master-strokes in these games? What about the Fulham game where we desperately needed to win; only for Fulham to sweep us aside with ease and leave us with the uphill task of going to White Hart Lane on the final day with little/no chance of getting anything? Alex was aware of the goings on behind the scenes. He knew that the clubs financial future would hang on that final game - yet a 4-5-1 defensive performance with no attacking threat whatsoever until 15 minutes to go; was his approach. It was pitiful and shameful. As much as I blame Yeung and Pannu for our demise; I cannot stress enough that a good part of the blame needs to be attributed to Alex McLeish who didn't heed the warning signs earlier in the season when we were struggling to score goals and defend effectively. He had no plan b when it all started going wrong. He like the players switched off and was probably planning his exit over the summer knowing full well that he wasn't up to the challenge of getting us back into the Premier League with no money to spend. |
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| Des | May 24 2013, 01:41 PM Post #23 |
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Malcom Page
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V unlike those two (frans& Lowds) I have always blamed alex for relegation whilst praising him for his achievements, cant do one without the other unless yr lowds that is, Frans You didnt have to write all that stuff, just oh you were right Des would have done nicely. last word, what type of fan tries to denigrate the only winning cup run in the last 50yrs!!! unbelievable!!! Anyway I`ll be in legends lounge on monday celebrating the original league cup win of 1963, be delighted to discuss!!! KRO |
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| franscar | May 24 2013, 01:53 PM Post #24 |
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Mikael Forssell
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I had to write it because it seems you have very little, if any, grasp on what tactics actually means. You also don't seem capable of spotting the difference between 'denigrating' the cup run and discussing the game as a football match rather than eulogising upon it as if it were The Iliad. |
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| Des | May 24 2013, 03:35 PM Post #25 |
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Malcom Page
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Frans I did discuss the match in its context of being a contest between two sides which because of our tactics,spirit, endeavour & effort we came out on top of Wengers charges, I eulogise because apart from Leyland Daf & Auto windscreen I have nothing ewlse to compare it to, possibly if I was a man u fan I may be a little jaded by success but as someone coming up to 50 years watching this was my apex!! Alex,& his lads became legends to me that day!! KRO |
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