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What are we playing at?; We are weaker now than last season!
Topic Started: Jul 29 2005, 03:06 AM (518 Views)
crusto
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
What is going on? Are we bottom feeders? It seems we are waiting for the leftovers after everyone else has bought who they actually wanted. In just over 2 weeks time we will be playing Fulham ffs. On the surface, we are only 1 player better off than last season at the moment (or the same if you replace pandiani with forssell) Lets dig a little deeper. Right! here goes...

Last seasons squad:

Taylor/Vaesen/Benno

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ/Carter/Gronkjaer/Savage

Heskey/Mozza/Pandiani/kuqi/blake

Total= 25 players

This seasons:

Taylor/Vaesen

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ

Heskey/Mozza/kuqi/Forssell

Total= 20 players


I may have missed out the odd player here or there (sorry but im tired!!!) but its plain for all to see that our squad is actually way weaker than it was last season and hasnt really gained in terms of quality. This also suggests to me that our wage bill may be smaller. Yet ST Prices have still risen.

Sorry for moaning folks but just what is happening? This is an embarrasment. At the minute it seems to me that we are anything but ambitious. If you want to see an example of an ambitious, forward thinking club then look at tottenham or newcastle, not us. Imo, panic buying just before the transfer window closes is no way for a club that calls itself ambitious to conduct business. What chance will any of our new signings (if we do sign anyone else) have to get to know each others game. They dont have long as it is with a full pre season together.

I really hope the board pull something out of the hat sooner rather than later and prove me completely wrong. I hate moaning on here but at the minute i think it is fully justifiable.

Before anyone says otherwise, I am pro sullivan and the golds and I appreciate what they have done for us so far. But at the moment I am very concerned with our lack of progress after all the promises of top class signings and not being out bid etc etc. Can anyone blame me?

I know this is a similar subject to the other thread I started but with every day that goes by with no activity it makes me more peed off. This time ive backed up my concerns with a little bit of evidence.
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tobedeleted
Unregistered

less is sometimes more, imo, and losing savage, carter and blake is no great loss.
also, kuqi wasn't in the squad last season so thats a bit inaccurate mate. all in all i think the squad on match day will be stronger than the first game last season, when we didn't have pennant or nafti as our players, forssell was carrying a knock, and gronks - well, what can you say about gronks that aint been said.
we also have doyle to add as back-up keeper, so numbers are actually pretty much the same, more if you count any of the youngsters who've played the friendlies. cheer up crusty, its better than you seem to think, and i for one wouldn't swap todays squad with last years!!.....
;)
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fishblues
Kenny Burns
[ *  *  *  * ]
You have included Pennant & Gronks in the squad from last season but they were never at the club at the same time.

If you also consider that Dunn and Izzet are in both squads but hardly played last season then they more like 2 quality additions to the squad this season. Plus I have no doubt that we will add to the squad before the transfer window closes (Still hoping we get Pandiani and a quality midfielder).

So by the start of the season the squad will be a lot stronger IMO.

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salad_dodger
Member Avatar
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Im not totally convinced SB has all that much money to spend TBH, selling carter and blake was IMO to rise money for transfers, the pandiani saga is it all totally down to deportivo's chairman? we knew the price before the season ended, yet we offer a third? :unsure: as for not being out bid please DS don't make me laugh parker was never a serious bid if any.

I really believe the club are trying to do it on the cheap this season, so you can forget any quality signings coming other than what we have got, oh and i wouldn't include Dunn in the seasons squad until he proves he can play and has recovered fully from injury. KRO
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alfboy
Garry Pendrey
[ *  *  *  * ]
Agree with Proccy, we're stronger than last year, maybe not in terms of number of senior first team squad members, but we have several youngsters who are all ready to start stepping up to the bench.

(can't help being pedantic but you've got Gronkjaer and Pennant in the same squad which never ever happened, one came in for the other.)


In regards lack of activity we don't honestly know what's happening behind closed doors, we were all annoyed with lack of activity for Forsell then all of a sudden he'd signed for us, so I'm not going to get too distraught.

I take your point crusto about the "making big signings, not getting outbid parts" it just hasn't happened as yet.


Brucey has said that business will be done later than last year but I would prefer to have made our moves and have the players in the team now for the friendlies rather than have another re-shuffle right at the start of the season where people haven't played together before.
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TBone
Garry Pendrey
[ *  *  *  * ]
alfboy
Jul 29 2005, 07:12 AM

I take your point crusto about the "making big signings, not getting outbid parts" it just hasn't happened as yet.


Got rid of the dead wood as far as I'm concerned.

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StAndrews4Eva
Member Avatar
Gil Merrick
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
crusto2
Jul 29 2005, 04:06 AM
What is going on? Are we bottom feeders? It seems we are waiting for the leftovers after everyone else has bought who they actually wanted. In just over 2 weeks time we will be playing Fulham ffs. On the surface, we are only 1 player better off than last season at the moment (or the same if you replace pandiani with forssell) Lets dig a little deeper. Right! here goes...

Last seasons squad:

Taylor/Vaesen/Benno

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ/Carter/Gronkjaer/Savage

Heskey/Mozza/Pandiani/kuqi/blake

Total= 25 players

This seasons:

Taylor/Vaesen

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ

Heskey/Mozza/kuqi/Forssell

Total= 20 players



You have missed Anderton off both lists.

Also missing off this years list are Kilkenny and Bruce. If Bruce adds the 2 players that Sully has said we wnt to sign then that will make this seasons total 25 and last seasons 26.

Also, last seasons squad includes signings that we made in Jan. We are not at Jan yet so it is an unfair comparison. It's like comparing Apples and Oranges - it dont work!
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Bookemdanno
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Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well lets see if they come first! Whoever they are. They may be quality, they may be squad players. But theres no denying the fact that Blues have acted like cheap skates this pre season for whatever reason.

I agree with the fact that Blake and Carter were sold to raise cash. Carter could have gone on-loan again after all! Which would have probably been a better option.
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Mr. Blue
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
crusto2
Jul 29 2005, 03:06 AM
What is going on? Are we bottom feeders? It seems we are waiting for the leftovers after everyone else has bought who they actually wanted. In just over 2 weeks time we will be playing Fulham ffs. On the surface, we are only 1 player better off than last season at the moment (or the same if you replace pandiani with forssell) Lets dig a little deeper. Right! here goes...

Last seasons squad:

Taylor/Vaesen/Benno

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ/Carter/Gronkjaer/Savage

Heskey/Mozza/Pandiani/kuqi/blake

Total= 25 players

This seasons:

Taylor/Vaesen

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ

Heskey/Mozza/kuqi/Forssell

Total= 20 players


I may have missed out the odd player here or there (sorry but im tired!!!) but its plain for all to see that our squad is actually way weaker than it was last season and hasnt really gained in terms of quality. This also suggests to me that our wage bill may be smaller. Yet ST Prices have still risen.

Sorry for moaning folks but just what is happening? This is an embarrasment. At the minute it seems to me that we are anything but ambitious. If you want to see an example of an ambitious, forward thinking club then look at tottenham or newcastle, not us. Imo, panic buying just before the transfer window closes is no way for a club that calls itself ambitious to conduct business. What chance will any of our new signings (if we do sign anyone else) have to get to know each others game. They dont have long as it is with a full pre season together.

I really hope the board pull something out of the hat sooner rather than later and prove me completely wrong. I hate moaning on here but at the minute i think it is fully justifiable.

Before anyone says otherwise, I am pro sullivan and the golds and I appreciate what they have done for us so far. But at the moment I am very concerned with our lack of progress after all the promises of top class signings and not being out bid etc etc. Can anyone blame me?

I know this is a similar subject to the other thread I started but with every day that goes by with no activity it makes me more peed off. This time ive backed up my concerns with a little bit of evidence.

To be honest and I dont want to cause offence, I think the above is a load of garbage.

Im glad we havnt rushed into buying a load of players as we did last year because that got us no where. A settled side with sum minor adjustments is exactly what we need IMO With the addition of the FORS and the permanent capture of Pennant and Muzzy fit again, I for one am very optimistic.
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sideweaver
The all singing and dancing Muppet!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Well Strong or not I wont stop following em :D

We've got a strong squad, we do need that extra security though to piece it all together.

If it werent for the injuries i recko we may have been in a totally different situation, but its a shame to see so many plan go bad due to unforseen circumstances

KRO
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Harborne Blue
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Peter Enckelman
[ *  *  * ]
We've also got Asa Hall, Neil Kilkenny and Sam Oji. All excellent young players looking to break into the first team.
As stated, Kuqi wasn't here at the start of last year.
Also Forsell was out almost from day one and Dunny struggled all season with injury - something that started two seasons ago!

Take a chill pill, dude. Everything's onna be sweet.
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sideweaver
The all singing and dancing Muppet!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Harborne Blue
Jul 29 2005, 10:07 AM
Take a chill pill, dude. Everything's onna be sweet.



who is that aimed at? i hope its not me :P

Quote:
 
We've also got Asa Hall, Neil Kilkenny and Sam Oji. All excellent young players looking to break into the first team.
As stated, Kuqi wasn't here at the start of last year.
Also Forsell was out almost from day one and Dunny struggled all season with injury - something that started two seasons ago!


Agreed
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tommii
Peter Enckelman
[ *  *  * ]
I feel that a lot of the comments are being made in panic at the moment. This pre-season has been very different to that of the past 3 years. This is only because we haven't gone out and bought 6 players straight away.

Last season showed exactly what too many changes can do, the team never played well for ages. When they did, the key members got injured. You look at other teams last year that did well, they suffered no injuires what-so-ever.

If everton got the injuries we did, they will struggle really badly this year. Don't forget they have only added 1 player since their squad last season. There squad is a lot smaller than ours, yet they are in the champions league.

Or approach in the market is fine this year. We have an established team in the premiership now, all we need to do is add the odd player here and there, if that means waiting until the close of the transfer window then so be it.

We must have some money, otherwise how could we bid for Bellamy??
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Bookemdanno
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Alex Govan
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
tommii
Jul 29 2005, 09:25 AM


We must have some money, otherwise how could we bid for Bellamy??

Bid after Bellamy's signed for Blackburn? :P

I get your point and you probably are right, but as far as im aware all we have done is replace, or realistically swap:

Gronks with Pennant.
Savage with Nafti.
Blake with Forssell.

Yes they are better quality players, but other areas are lacking. Central defence. A central playmaking midfielder. These additions with possibly Pandiani would push us onto the next level.

So with that we still have this summers transfer budget. Unless I fell for Sullivans hot air. :unsure:
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DANY
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I think we will have a stronger starting 11 than we started last season with as this time we will start with Pennant but thats about it really.

I dont think the squad is really that much stronger and it seems we are counting very much on staying injury free this season.
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Scarlet
Member Avatar
Olivier Tebily
[ *  *  * ]
Crusto, you are aware that in your main post you combined the players we started the season with and those that we ended with ... Remove Pennant, Blake, Pandy, Nafti etc from your first list and you'll see we're STRONGER than this time last year ...
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DANY
Geoff Horsfield
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I guess its also worth considering that the team we finished the season with played far superior football than when the team who started the season.

With Pennant, Pandiani & Nafti added to the squad we should remember we had some fantastic team performances and if you look at the last 8-10 games we played it was very positive. Even the games we failed to win like Norwich away we played very well in.

Beating arsenal, blackburn & nearly beating chelsea.

I got the feeling the team was starting to come together at the back end of the season and if we can carry that over to the start of this year i think we could expect a good 5-10 points more than last season.
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ESONEULB
Member Avatar
Bluenose Ad Vitam = Bluenose For Life
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I for one am glad we have not rushed in for players. These next few signings are probably the most important for us, europe or the loss of are better players next term. The budget layed out for wages is probably very close to its max so the scope we have to bring new blood to the squad gets smaller and smaller. we also can't be held to ransom by other clubs, look at chelsea and essien thats stupid. Chelsea do us no favours when they portray the prem as clubs that will pay what the seller demands. Good for Brum for standing there ground that will help us in future buys. Two signs to come and one or two loan signings.
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crusto
Paul Tait
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Mr. Blue
Jul 29 2005, 10:03 AM
crusto2
Jul 29 2005, 03:06 AM
What is going on? Are we bottom feeders? It seems we are waiting for the leftovers after everyone else has bought who they actually wanted. In just over 2 weeks time we will be playing Fulham ffs. On the surface, we are only 1 player better off than last season at the moment (or the same if you replace pandiani with forssell) Lets dig a little deeper. Right! here goes...

Last seasons squad:

Taylor/Vaesen/Benno

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ/Carter/Gronkjaer/Savage

Heskey/Mozza/Pandiani/kuqi/blake

Total= 25 players

This seasons:

Taylor/Vaesen

Clap/Upson/KC/Mario/Tebs/Taylor

Stan/Gray/Clem/Nafti/Izzet/Dunn/Pennant/DJ

Heskey/Mozza/kuqi/Forssell

Total= 20 players


I may have missed out the odd player here or there (sorry but im tired!!!) but its plain for all to see that our squad is actually way weaker than it was last season and hasnt really gained in terms of quality. This also suggests to me that our wage bill may be smaller. Yet ST Prices have still risen.

Sorry for moaning folks but just what is happening? This is an embarrasment. At the minute it seems to me that we are anything but ambitious. If you want to see an example of an ambitious, forward thinking club then look at tottenham or newcastle, not us. Imo, panic buying just before the transfer window closes is no way for a club that calls itself ambitious to conduct business. What chance will any of our new signings (if we do sign anyone else) have to get to know each others game. They dont have long as it is with a full pre season together.

I really hope the board pull something out of the hat sooner rather than later and prove me completely wrong. I hate moaning on here but at the minute i think it is fully justifiable.

Before anyone says otherwise, I am pro sullivan and the golds and I appreciate what they have done for us so far. But at the moment I am very concerned with our lack of progress after all the promises of top class signings and not being out bid etc etc. Can anyone blame me?

I know this is a similar subject to the other thread I started but with every day that goes by with no activity it makes me more peed off. This time ive backed up my concerns with a little bit of evidence.

To be honest and I dont want to cause offence, I think the above is a load of garbage.

Im glad we havnt rushed into buying a load of players as we did last year because that got us no where. A settled side with sum minor adjustments is exactly what we need IMO With the addition of the FORS and the permanent capture of Pennant and Muzzy fit again, I for one am very optimistic.

No offence taken mate, its youre opinion and youre entitled to it. But if you think our current squad is going places then you have got some seriously blue tinted specs on. We cant base our success on the hope of players staying fit, we need high quality contingency plans, not utility players like DJ.

We need two or three top quality additions to push up the table and at the moment it seems like were only interested in scratting around for bargain buys. Like I said, I hope im very wrong but the board are doing zilch at the moment to prove otherwise.
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nattyf
Martin Grainger
[ *  *  * ]
i think we lack a bit of depth but we have a strong squad. The young kids that are coming through should definately be given a chance, it's time we put a bit of faith in our youth!!
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bluen05e
Peter Enckelman
[ *  *  * ]
I haven't read all the responses so I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything but if you look at players like Kilkenny, Kuqi, and maybe some of the other youngsters we may (or indeed may not) have something better than that gained by a new signing and that is an unknown quantity. Younger players give us the chance to spring a surprise.

Not only tha but if you consider that we'll have Forsell Pennant (and Hopefully) Dunn and Izzet we'll be stronger than last season (simply look at the 4 games we won with Dunn in the side!!!)
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