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| Transfer spending????? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 2 2005, 02:22 PM (1,521 Views) | |
| dr.nick | Aug 2 2005, 03:46 PM Post #26 |
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Trevor Francis
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that is very true, and i think it points to us being peeked on season tickets this season as we are down on last season. i personaly think after last season they should of given a discount to the ST holders of 5 seasons or more. |
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| alfred E nueman | Aug 2 2005, 03:49 PM Post #27 |
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Mikael Forssell
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It might be that school is out, because at this point in a thread Wildybeast should have had threats and abuse to have reached 50 replies! I remember a thread from a year or two ago, it did point to high level of repayments (for loans) expenses for non-executives and "travel costs". Either way, as a club we would need to upgrade our basic squad player's wages if we were ever going to be in a position to meet someone like Bowyer's wage demands. So, in that respect, our board are keeping us viable (thank God), but we are not really in the "we'll outbid anyone" league. What does amaze me is why or when the chickens are going to come home top roost at 'boro ? What kind of accounting are they using? We have a higher profile and yet 'boro can outbid,outpay and still exist...... I agree with WildyB, it is a topic well worth raising. If Blues' have good success, we don't want to become a cash cow to bail out the dwindling empires of Sport and Summers. Whenever DS suggests he is bailing out, nobody comes forward he complains, and that is to do with the intricate web of ownership and "debt repayment" that has been set up. I do like this board, the fact that they are not always straight with their customer base does annoy me. Years ago, DS sold an old porno guys unused photos, advertised as 1,000 pictures of Salacious Sally or whatever. The punter's got a shot print of 1,000 thumbnails of one picture of Salacious Sally.DS was on his way. When I read that a £10M player about to be bought, in my ST renewal letter, I did laugh, it had David's influence all over it. Legally True - yes....misleading YES. Thats our board, God bless 'em. :D . |
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| Deleted User | Aug 2 2005, 03:54 PM Post #28 |
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whatever happened to the 1yr,2yr,5yr season ticket deal on the previous seasons prices. good for fans and club sam 15 million would make the average wage just over 15k, for 20 first team pro's, most of the team are on less that 10 apart from heskey, mario, forsell, izzet etc think your about 5mill out. Solid balance sheet is one thing, but no one is saying break the bank, just spend the money on a couple of season long loaan deals !!!!!!!! then we play better, increase league position and popularity so knock on effect in revenues and prize money etc etc. we could offer 7million for yakubu last year, and this year we cant, explain why not, lesser teams have spent more, and are not broke?? |
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| Deleted User | Aug 2 2005, 04:00 PM Post #29 |
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i am going to get slaughtered for this, but I will always thank the golds and sullivan for what they have done and they have done us proud, but when you look at the figures are we just being used as a tax fiddle for Ann summers/Sport publications? where else can you write of 2-3 million pounds in money except football, its called money laundering but is completely legal in this scenario. please i am not having a go at the board, because i am proud of them, its just that their business affairs are becoming a bit more obvious as the club gets richer. |
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| sam jordan | Aug 2 2005, 04:09 PM Post #30 |
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it is not written off money, or laundering... they have loans in bcfc, which they will get back, they don't chuck money in to allow taxation to be contraded between companies. it is not part of the "gold group of companies" the shares are owned by companies that the shareholders own, but it cannot be used to lower taxation liabilities for the other companies, especially as BCFC makes a profit that creates it own tax liability. if they were trying to utilise tax losses of an organistion than BCFC is not the mechanism for that, they could buy a company for £1 going under with tax losses in it already, use able for next 7 yrs or so. |
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| Tilton_Rifle | Aug 2 2005, 04:15 PM Post #31 |
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Minister of Silly Walks
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alf 'brough are lucky enough to have a fan as a chairman who is loaded and isnt afraid to dig deep into his own pocket to get what mclaren needs (although the belt is now tightening as shown with Appiah) for success. At the moment you could say that they are the flipside of the leeds story, but if european success doesnt come for them then you will see a completely different 'brough. As for the money laundering etc etc etc we are never gonna know what happens to every penny of the money and at the end of the day it is their money that they have put in from those same companies so they are entitled to take some back. |
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| Deleted User | Aug 2 2005, 04:17 PM Post #32 |
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okay we buy blake for 1.25 mill and sell for 1 mill 3 months later - loss 250k, claim back vat, loss nil!!! 1.25mill in business, loose 12% corporation tax strainght away, non refundable, no more with good accountants thats 150k loss not lost if you look at cash loan from ann summers / sport etc now apply that to others, dugarry yorke marcelo newell stern john plus loads other players sold on the cheap over the years etc etc given away, cash written off also did you know barry fry when sacked used his pay off from board to buy peterborough united?????? where did that money come from?? as/sport loan again, no tax paid, but returned with interest. not sour grapes just good business ethics by blues management , but it means we cant compete with middlesboro etc |
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| mccp | Aug 2 2005, 04:20 PM Post #33 |
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Alex Govan
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http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=BMC.L You will need to copy & paste this, but in effect it shows the recent rapid rise of the share price of BCFC. If you look closely you will see that the rises correspond to the dates of public announcements about £10 million pound players etc. Our revenue streams are not solely about turnstile, bovril and shirts. Please don't forget that friends. Wildeebeast is on the right track. Our board could do more without endangering the club, but its a choice. Their other businesses who now seem to be feeding like leeches off Blues. I am so relieved that no one has yet started attacking "alternative views" and obscuring the issue. It is plain to me. Through their financial husbandry and business sense, our board have made Blues a viable and profitable company. So much so that it could invite predators like the Glazers etc.But it is also supporting their loss making enterprises that are involved in the ownership. It is plain to me. The board are faced with: Blues or Us? They won't run us down, but they could turn off the hype! :D . |
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| Tilton_Rifle | Aug 2 2005, 04:25 PM Post #34 |
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Minister of Silly Walks
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true, but 'brough are playing a very risky game. If they dont get success they will suffer for it (or at least steve gibson (their chairman) will. |
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| Deleted User | Aug 2 2005, 04:28 PM Post #35 |
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they also set the interest levels blues pay back to their parent companies so say they lend us 6 million for heskey thats no tax paid on that 6 million to start with by parent company , they are already £720k up so thats 6.72 million now, blues claim back 17.5% of the 6million on vat returns, thats another 1.3million app its now worth 8 million, blues pay the 6 back to AS/sport plus say 2 mill interest (8 million) total returns for AS/sport £10million, almost double money. blues get heskey golds/sullivan get 4million profit no wonder they do it, and as sweeteners, say they give 2million everyother year out their own pocket to keep everyone sweet. if they do this every time blues buy a player work it out, check the plc records sam, what were interest payments last year???? |
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| DANY | Aug 2 2005, 05:30 PM Post #36 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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I think you'll find the loans from sullivan/gold companies to blues have always been interest free. This is the main reason we make profits while other clubs who are in debt to the banks make big losses. Remember too that our board members sullivan & the golds do not pay themselves salaries, take a glance at viles books and you will find Mr ellis takes 500k a year for his 'services' People are speculating about finiancial dealings they dont really understand. |
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| anglo-welsh bluenose | Aug 2 2005, 05:48 PM Post #37 |
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Bob Hatton
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God how quickly we have turned into a premiership club!!! <_< |
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| ffblue | Aug 2 2005, 07:13 PM Post #38 |
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Steve Claridge
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I'm glad your not my accountant wildybeast ...never hear so much c**p |
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| richinio | Aug 2 2005, 08:49 PM Post #39 |
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Garry Pendrey
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I think Blues should be paying Ellis his 500k, excellent value for money! |
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| Bluenose_68 | Aug 2 2005, 08:53 PM Post #40 |
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Peter Enckelman
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its interesting stuff wildy however i have to agree with the others on this board....at present we are a sucecssful profitable club that even if armageddon happened and we got relegated we would be solvent. Ask Leeds or forest fans if they had wished their club was run like the blues. We have also managed to get pennant, forssell, nafti and pandiani for about £9m which is a fricking steal. Its ironic that if we had say paid £6mil for forssell, £3mil for pandiani and £5 million for pennant (all realistic values) people would be delighted. The board we have got are no mugs and play the plc game very well and regenerate and save money. as long as they are here we are always going to be run well kro bn8 |
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| tobedeleted | Aug 2 2005, 09:06 PM Post #41 |
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great post, but dont take wildy too seriously; he's the biggest "devil's advocate" on this forum, with the possible exception of grncoma....... ;) |
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| Deleted User | Aug 2 2005, 10:03 PM Post #42 |
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hey guys, except proccy well nuff said, said i would get slated but i dont mind on this one, all i have said is where has the money gone, said at the start am proud of the club and the board for making it all happen, my only point is as the club gets bigger and better, then so should thing on the pitch get bigger and better, but on the negative side the club should be more accountable as it comes more under the spotlight for every place up the league we finish its an extra 600000 in prive money, so 5 places 3million, = new player. without going stupid now is the time to invest more than has been already . where is the 10million player we were told about. (the shares went up when this news was released!!!!) we have only spent 1.5 million this summer (nett) so where is this big new signing??? we have had higher ticket prices , fine, whatever, but if we aint got the money then im not asking for a 10 mill player but keep the prices down, get rid of the prawn sarnie brigade!!! bring the blues back to the proper fans, and just get these free/loan players to strengthen the squad, dont feed us with false hopes in the aim of increasing sales!!! if we get this signing then i apologise now. I want success but not at the cost of the loyal fans who are being priced out |
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| BluenoseMo | Aug 3 2005, 06:35 AM Post #43 |
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Johnny Vincent
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proccy - it's GNRcoma - as in Guns N' Roses. And his last username was Buckethead - again as in Guns N' Roses. Mo x |
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| bluerinse | Aug 3 2005, 07:31 AM Post #44 |
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Geoff Horsfield
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Sorry but your talking rubbish, all revenues reported through company books are net of VAT, Vat is just a collection exercise on behalf of HMG (free of Charge I might add) You charge VAT, you pay VAT the balance is the either owed to you or you to the VAT Man. It is not recorded as revenue or cost. |
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| nick_p | Aug 3 2005, 07:43 AM Post #45 |
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Kenny Burns
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You might find that last summer was the time when the board invested - and this summer the failure to improve our league position has resulted in a tighter rein on spending - assuming of course, that we have been spending less... |
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| Deleted User | Aug 3 2005, 08:34 AM Post #46 |
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yes but the simple fact is we have only spent 1.5 million on new signings this summer. which by the way is the worst in the prem no 10 million player has materialised ticket prices have increased almost 3 times the rate of inflation where is our return, with the exception of forsell the team is the same as the end of last season where we ended up with our poorest finish in the premier |
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| Bluediver | Aug 3 2005, 09:44 AM Post #47 |
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Alex Govan
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Interesting thread. And while I can't verify your figures, I believe that the general implication of your post is that the club's expenditure is not in line with our incremental increase in incomings through ST sales, TV money etc. I have to admit that I had thought exactly the same thing. The trouble I have is that while I trust this Board to undertake a prudent strategy that will guarantee it's future, I dont believe that a substantial increase in investent in the team would jeopardise our survival. I do not advocate Leeds-style recklessness, but if your figures are anywhere near accurate, then we as a club are significantly underinvesting in players. Ultimately that will impact upon our league position, and maybe in due course in our Premiership status. Questioning the club over it's transfer policy is not being disloyal. Dont let others try and kid you it is. I suspect that if there hasn't been a major improvement in our performances during the coming season there'll be a few more of us asking questions. |
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| Hooby Groovy | Aug 3 2005, 10:06 AM Post #48 |
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Frank Worthington
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Am I missing something, or did I imagine that we signed: Forssell Pennant (yes, it was the end of last season but comes out of the close-season kitty) Nafti With Pandiani about to sign and a midfielder on their way (hopefully) I can't see where your figures add-up Should Pandiani go-through and say £2 million on a midfielder then isn't that about £8 million? Also, I reitterate that its dangerous to start trying to calculate figures from guesswork - I would imagine that any member of the accounts team at BCFC could shoot your arguement down in minutes I don't think its wrong to question the board - but I do think you have to be very careful not to manipulate figures to suit your own personal objectives |
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| Deleted User | Aug 3 2005, 10:13 AM Post #49 |
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my only worry really is whilst in the safety on mid table enjoying premiership football, this policy we are following is keeping us stable in the black etc etc. BUT t gain the success of a european place we would need to invest in 2 or possibly 3 £6million + players. Teams like everton were no better than us last year, they just beat the easy teams in the league once they sold their best player (gravesen who imo is a £6m+ player) there season stuttered big time, at one poin they were 15 points ahead of liverpool in fourth place. So what are we going to do Blues. make these buy now pay later deals we keep doing or go out and say we want your player , here is £6m on the table ,, take it or leave it. if we said that who would we get out of the following random names geremi, joe cole, gravesen, roy keane (maybe too old) bet we would get 3 out of 4 of them and you look at the prem , everyone of note has a midfield general apart from us Question???? Who is our midfield general, why have we not spent the money to get him ? is butt really the answer or just another cheap deal???? chelsea - lampard man u - keane liverpool - gerrand villa- mccann/berger boro-downing wba- gera everton- carsley/cahill spurs -davids arsenal- fabregas/hleb charlton - murphy newcastle- parker sunderland- west ham- chadwick/etherington man c- barton/mastampa/sibierski wigan- mahon/fransen fulham- malbranque/legwinski portsmouth- robert welshburn - savage???? bolton - okocha |
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| Deleted User | Aug 3 2005, 10:17 AM Post #50 |
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yes we actually spent spent 8.5 million, but got 1m for blake, 3 for savave, 1.4 for gronks, 1.5m for carter we got 7.4m back. so we spent 1.1 m, which if you take out of the prem pize money of 4.8m never mind tv money etc we are still 3.7m better off even with new signings |
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